Wikijunior talk:Solar System/Archive 2

Proofreading of Pluto Completed by Shanel
Shanel has checked off all of the tasks for Pluto. Could everyone please review this module? Did the proofreading process work? Is Pluto now ready to be read by our target audience?

Let's hear a big cheer for Shanel! --SV Resolution 14:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Proofing and getting ready for publication
Rob Horning has pointed out that it is time to start proofreading this book. We need to come up with a sensible process for the entire proofreading process, not just the fact checking. I have boldly moved the discussion, because I think it is going to get long.

Talk:Wikijunior Solar System/Proofreading

Important -- Books for Evacuees by October 3
Hi. This book looks absolutely wonderful right now, and I think that with a concentrated effort, we can get it ready for publication and printed within 3 weeks. I am going to suggest the following time table: This can serve as a model copy, which can then be distributed to children in shelters across the southeastern US. Comments are welcome. Danny 03:12, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * September 10 - missing pieces identified
 * September 18 - all material written
 * September 22 - all material fact checked, edited, and copyedited
 * October 1 - professional layout completed.
 * October 3 - printing


 * In terms of what content needs to be proofed, let's just stick to the standard 9 planets, comets, asteroids, the Sun, and the intro sections alone. In other words, leave the seperate sections of the moons (except for the Earth's moon perhaps) out as well as the extended appendix sections.  The Glossary really needs to be fixed up quite a bit, particularly with the hyperlinks removed and a systematic inclusions of a bolded words in the text of the articles that need definitions. I would still like to see a "full" Wikijunior Solar System with all of the larger moons, perhaps even a few asteroids and Kuiper Belt objects added in with updated knowledge due to advanced exploration of those worlds, but that is going to have to be a version "2.0" update, IMHO.  It will be easier if we try to stick to the basics here. --Rob Horning

Well, that's a LOT of work. In order to meet that timeline, we will have to I don't think we can meet Danny's proposed schedule without LOTS of help. LOTS. I propose putting ALL of our modules immediately into the "Proofreading" mode without doing any consensus-checking. Certainly not for a WEEK. And recruiting for help at Wikipedia's fact-checking project. --SV Resolution 13:33, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Stop adding material and start the proofreading process
 * Recruit lots of help
 * Use the GAT to compile our glossary.


 * What's the big rush? Why not allow a year to pass and let this work mature? :) &mdash; RJHall 22:12, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

It's about the grant money. I have been asking for somebody (anybody!) to post the complete PRIMARY SOURCE MATERIAL of the Beck Foundation grant SOMEPLACE (on WikiMediaFoundation, on the wikijunior page, wherever). But I think the grant is contingent on a December deliverable. (Don't quote me on that. I don't know anything.)  So if we push to get it out 3 October we have 2 months of slip.

Which we would likely need, at the rate we are moving. The facts have not been checked. The copy needs to be edited, and brought down to an appropriate reading level. Great quantities of material need to be removed. Every time I turn around, somebody is adding material. The "Kiki" task force needs to choose an artist, who then needs to get started on selected illustrations.

I wonder who it was that decided to apply for the grant, and how they came up with a timeline predicting that an as-yet-undetermined group of Wikizens would colonize the project and complete a book by December 2005?

--SV Resolution 15:57, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Grant? Okay. Well I hope you don't mind but I went through and updated the little completion icons on the main page. There are still a few that are far from completion, particularly the moons of Jupiter (about which we know a fair amount.) Some of the terminology I'm seeing tossed around is bordering on college level (palimsest, synchronous rotation, arachnoid, regolith, and siderial day, for example.) :) &mdash; RJHall 19:21, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't mind at all. Whatever you can do to advance the book is good. Though we probably don't need to add a lot of content right now. The book is already > 48 pages. I hope the proofreading process I proposed is well-designed to catch all of these things. Any input you can give on that is appreciated, as well. --SV Resolution 22:48, 8 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Well I guess if I were looking to shorten it, I would consider merging all of those separate moon pages together. For example "Moons of Saturn" and "Moons of Mars". Each moon could then just have a single section, instead of lots of somewhat sparse pages. (But a few moons probably deserve their own pages, such as Io, Europa, and Titan.) :) &mdash; RJHall 20:36, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, merging the moon pages together is a great idea. Alot of the pages aren't very full, but the moons still deserve some mention. And some information, like "What is it made of?" and "Who discovered it?" is repetitive for alot of moons. Hopefully, if we ever get to do a version 2.0 Wikijunior Solar System, we'll have alot more information from Cassini and we can include all the moon pages. :)--Shanel 01:08, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

I think there is officially no way to make the deadline User:Danny has set us. Why October 3? I wish I could get more information about this grant ...--SV Resolution 23:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Beck Foundation proposal
This is more of an FYI about the Beck Foundation Grant. Details can be found here: Wikijunior/proposal to Beck Foundation

The Beck Foundation can be found here: http://www.ahbeck.com/ http://chaucer.library.emory.edu/beckbio.html (the previous link...plasterd all over Meta...has nothing to do with the Beck Foundation that is dealing with this proposal)

Yet more details can be found here: WQ/2/grants

I hope this help out. There was a little bit of discussion on Foundation-l, but I think it is rehashing the content listed above, as well as what can be found on Wikijunior. I don't know who wrote the grant, or when the terms need to be completed. --Rob Horning 02:17, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Wikijunior/proposal to Beck Foundation Says that they're hoping to print a booklet on the topic of animals in December. Seeing as how we're proofreading Solar System and not Big Cats, that's not happening anymore? --Shanel 21:48, 10 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Based on user participation and the fact that the Big Cats volume seems to be struggling right now, I would have to say that the Solar System Wikibook is going to be the first one out of the gate. Wikijunior South America is struggling as well, with a couple of countries that havn't even had any real substance added to them, while the Big Cats does seem to be coming together, but with not nearly as many articles overall.  The Big Cats book may have been just too narrow of a topic compared to the other topics for Wikijunior. Assuming that we get it done and ready, I'm still not sure exactly who is going to do the printing and the specifics on where everything is going to go.  Those details (critical in terms of how the grant money is supposedly going to be given to the Wikimedia Foundation) are conspicuously missing right now.  On the other hand, this Wikibook seems so close to a publishable state that the status of the Beck Foundation is irrelevant, and I would like to see this published anyway and offered to some elementary schools.  If we can get the quality of this up, there are a couple of other companies that I am thinking of hitting up myself to seek funding.  --Rob Horning 08:03, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Which Beck foundation is funding this grant? Rob Horning here says it is the Lewis H. Beck foundation, while meta:User:Sj suggested on theBenefactors talk page that it is the John and Frances Beck Foundation.


 * It's the John and Frances Beck Foundation. This was confirmed today by Michael Davis who checked the name on the $10,000 check they sent us. Angela 19:21, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Spoken book
I've uploaded a new section of audio to the Commons. The complete list is now:


 * 1) [[Media:Wikijunior Solar System-Title Page.ogg|Title page]]
 * 2) [[Media:Wikijunior Solar System-The Sun.ogg|The Sun]]
 * 3) [[Media:Wikijunior_Solar_System-Pluto.ogg|Pluto]]

I've added Pluto, now that it has been proofread.

I'd appreciate advice as to how to link to the files in the module itself. Any ideas?

--Polyparadigm 05:58, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Proofreading of Pluto Completed by Shanel
Shanel has checked off all of the tasks for Pluto. Could everyone please review this module? Did the proofreading process work? Is Pluto now ready to be read by our target audience?

Let's hear a big cheer for Shanel! --SV Resolution 14:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)


 * Yay! :) Right now I'm trying to replace all the Wikipedia references with NASA ones as you suggested, but other than that this module is good to go!--Shanel 23:00, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Copy editing issues
I have moved this content to the proofreading discussion page. Rachel 17:58, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

zodiacal symbols
Do we really want to explain the origins of the symbols for Venus and Mars? We could bowdlerize and talk about mirrors and spears, but from what I understand they symbolize genitals...which might cause trouble if the book is given out in the Bible belt.--Polyparadigm 07:11, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * There is a lot more to the world than the bible belt. I don't think we should worry too much. Tasteful rather than bowdlerised is the way to go when writing for children. Theresa knott 19:38, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

The symbol for Venus -- isn't it the fertility figure? Much like the African fertility figure with the large head, small torso, and small arms? But that's not important right now. Any discussion of fertility symbols and genitals would add nothing to kids' understanding of the solar system, any more than any discussion of any of the other zodiacal symbols would. Would we have to include (considering that some of the readers are 4th graders) an explanation of what genitals are used for? It's all a bit off-topic. I don't think Bowdlerisation is at issue. We are not removing the sexy bits from a great work of literature. We are trying to write a book about the solar system. And the book is already too long. We can write "questions and answers about sex" another time. --SV Resolution 22:56, 2 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The symbol for Venus is a woman's mirror (the cross on the bottom is the handle). Mars is a "warrior" carrying a shield (hence the arrow to the right... or the left.  The Moon is obvious.  The Earth is the geographic globe with prime meridian and equator.  Jupiter is a stylized lightning bolt.  Mercury has the "wings" on the head from Hermes.  Pluto is actually the initials for Perceval Lowell, the discover of the planet (actually Tombaugh, but Lowell got credit back elsewhen).  As for Bible belt objections, I think we need to worry more about the images of the dieties themselves.  I got some strong objections to a printed version of this Wikibook with the image of Venus and Neptune.  Neptune shows everything but genitalia, and you can almost pick out pubic hairs.  Good classical art, but this isn't an art book, nor should it be.  Some suggestions were made to simply crop out the crotch and breast areas, as the Venus picture is already cropped from the original.  --Rob Horning 01:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The symbol for Venus is based on the Ankh, though. I know that a lot of ankh shaped mirrors were produced in Egypt way back when, but it's a pre-bronze age symbol.  I've seen a lot more big-hipped fertility figures than big-headed ones, btw...the Ankh article, anyway, says that the top two competing theories are "womb" and "sandal strap", and I for one think the former is a lot more feminine.  But if you don't want to dig too deeply into the origins of those symbols, it's probably best both from a standpoint of length and of focus.--Polyparadigm 05:01, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

"the planet" vs. "this planet"
I'm going to change the questions and the headers so they all say "this planet"--Shanel 02:13, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Eiter one is fine, I guess, as long as they are all the same --SV Resolution 11:56, 8 October 2005 (UTC)