Wikibooks talk:Information technology bookshelf

Let's start some books or topics today to address these issues
I do NOT believe this is the place for technical support for programming and hardware "issues."

This form of support is provided by an enormous collection of well established and documented resources. There are countless mailing lists and news groups and IRC channels that you can subscribe to if you need support, developer information, get answers to your questions or hear the latest news.

To address some of these issues:

Let's go for it. I have started two books below that I believe may help.

Book of Technical Support

Forms of Technical Support
Technical support for hardware and software issues are provided by an enormous collection of well established and documented resources. There are countless mailing lists and news groups and IRC channels that you can subscribe to if you need support, developer information, get answers to your questions or hear the latest news.

Mailing lists provide users and interested parties support and communication through the use of email. Anyone can join a mailing list and as a member you will automatically recieve and be able to send questions, comments or news on any topic that the group supports. To join any of the known mailing lists below, visit the link indicated, follow the simple instructions to join and have fun! The requirements to join a list are generally as obtrusive a joining wikipedia.com.

IRC channels provide support by means of "live" chat.

News Groups provide support in a manner similar to "Mailing List." To subscribe to a news group.....

The following list of software support resources are organized alphabetically by the common name of the application or programming language.

My suggestion is lets make like as simple to begin, like keep it alphabetically. As the size of the lists grow, we can re-group, sort, as needed.

I suggest a list of external links are created in the wiki tradition as follows...

  

where,

 is the url of the mail subscribe page, news server, or IRC channel as required by our wiki.  is the name common name of the software title or programming language.  := email | news | irc  := active | inactive | archive 

C Programming Language
SNIPPETS C programming conference email [ FidoNet  SNIPPETS C programming conference C_Echo Gateway to the FidoNet ]

Python List
Python List email large, active list for the discussion of all issues related to Python Programming

Doc-SIG -- Python Documentation Special Interest Group email active list for the discussion of issues related to ...

--

Book of IT Software Standards

Part 1 - Software Standards
A list of the known industry or community standards and where copies of these standards can be located and/ or reviewed. For example:

RFC - 1 RFC - 2 ASCII ANSI - help me out XML ANSI C FORTRAN Common Lisp HTML 3.0 ISO Standards

Book of Hardware

I have a very related concern to the one expressed below. Namely I think there should be a kind of project in wikibooks devoted to technical support for hardware and software. I am not sure if this is the place to talk about this but if anyone knows a better place could they please direct me or just copy my post to that place. Right now I usually debug problems I have with my computer by going on google and doing searches. This method is usually effective but sometimes it is problematic because the solution to problems is often stored within support forums and google sometimes does not do a good job searching these forums. Anyways I think there should be a bookshelf within IT devoted to technical support of any hardware/software. This technical support should be organized by books devoted to pieces of software or hardware. They should include extensive list of problems, error messeges and reasons for the problems as well as proposed solutions.

--Assman 06:28, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this would be a good place, but it's closest I got so far. What I have been thinking about is the ever-repeated question of "will work or be worth anything" that nags especially non-windos people. It would be nice to have a large-ish wiki that has a net of descriptions of manufacturers, devices, drivers and standards & interfaces and descriptions and relations where possible.

Particularly sought-after is information like "Is the Foocorp Idlemaster 2000 an usb storage device that will work everywhere or a proprietary protocol doorstop whose support will be buried in half-a year when the company goes under and/or I update my OS?" or "Will this phone eat Hayes/AT over IR or EIA-[24]32? OBEX?" etc. Likewise for things that appear as serial devices, support changer commands etc.

Manufacturers are obscenely bad at producing this information and with the customer base they have, they don't have to. There is also little incentive for them to support aging hardware.

As for the wiki, for example under usb-storage, you would have a list of devices that appear as usb storage devices. It might have a link to Linux usb-storage.o and equivalent drivers on other systems. Each would have a list of devices that have been confirmed to work.

This could also contain parts lists for "special" manufacturers, eg Sun or IBM part numbers, what they are, what they fit in and what drivers or os versions they work with etc. Many user groups (like TUHS) might also be interested in getting something more than scattered personal repositories for their objects of interest.

The wiki could be as coherent or fragmented, as large or focused as people manage to make it. Databases are just too heavy and often specialized.

--Blades 22:00, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

Disorganization
Why is there no hardware and software umbrella categories in the Information Technology bookshelf? --Lordscissorhand 14:58, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Reorganisation of IT Bookshelf
I've given the subject some more thought. I'm thinking that the separation of the monolothic 'IT bookshelf' into three (below) might aid navigability.
 * Computer Science - All topics related to the research of computer use and technology.
 * Programming - Language guides, framework guides, software design guides, patterns etc.
 * IT/IS - All software guides, technology guides, certification etc.

The problem would then be catagorising books. It is sometimes hard to make a distinction between computer science and the other two catagories. The question is - do we want to make as general a distinction as possible at the 'bookshelf' level (i.e only have two (see below)), or try to define clearly several new IT related bookshelves?

Robcowie 12:30, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * It'd be fine with that. I've already been standardizing true CS books to be put in the namespace "Computer Science:". The defintion is: if a university would teach a course on the subject in their computer science department, then it belongs as a Computer Science book. I wouldn't make the defintion so narrow to be "research of computer use and technology". To me, Computer Science is "the study of the creation, analysis, and limits of computations; for different computational models". An algorithms book covers both the analysis and creation of computations, while an intro to programming book would only cover the creation. Theorhetical computer science studies the limits.


 * Whatever the case, Computer Science does seem a bit out of place with the IT books. MShonle 01:15, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * (Also, I like the three categories: Programming, Computer Science, and IT. An intro to the MFC classes isn't an IT book, but it certainly isn't computer science (and thus it's "programming" instead). MShonle)

I agree that a reorganization should take place. I think that the horizontal listing of books at the top of the page doesn't quite match the organization of books once it gets organized below, which is kind of disorienting. It seems that the horizontal listing is what people first encounter when visiting the bookshelf pages, but the breakdown that occurs later in the IT page is how people seem to want to organize it as books become more developed or as more books are added. jotaboca 02:36, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It seems to me that the IT bookshelf has outgrown itself. There are many books that could be more easily found if moved to new sections. For example, there is a 'Computer Science' bookshelf within the IT bookshelf. However, some of its books should perhaps not be in it. It is also not directly linked to from within the IT bookshelf. There are therefore several books that do not appear in the IT bookshelf list and con only be located by searching.

I suggest that - as well as a reorganisation of the topics within the IT bookshelf, it should be split into two bookshelves:
 * 'Computing' - for non-academic books such as software guides, certification books and Linux install guides.
 * 'Information Science' - for more technical, advanced topics such as Programming, software design, hardware design etc.

I'm new to the wiki so I don't yet fully understand the concept of moving books, or the difference between modules, books and pages. Consequently, I haven't figured out the best way to proceed should this idea be accepted by users.

Any thoughts would be gratefully recieved.

Robcowie 17:23, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't we create the subcategory Computer Science/Logic to put there Logic for Computer Scientists and 21 Century Math Method? (In the future these books should share some content either by inclusion or reference.) What to do with the template (Template:IT bookshelf) regarding CS logic topic? What's about refering 21 Century Math Method from there? -- Porton (Apr 22, 2005), you can reply at User_talk:Porton


 * I think Computer Science related books could all go under the umbrella of Computer Science for now: there's aren't too many true CS books (most are Programming or IT books), so there isn't much need for finer grained categories. As for sharing information, this seems to be a tough problem: What we've been doing with the Data Structures and Algorithms books is to let some of the content just be copies. It makes the books stand out on their own better, and creates more opportunities. (Also, keeping a tight integration of chapters in the same book makes it a better book. Having to keep a couple of chapters independent is more of a headache than having two similar, but not the same, portions of text out there). Because it's all GFDL anyway copying poses no real problems and a little redundancy can be good. MShonle 00:31, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

I vote for the split in some manner. Any of the above suggestions work for me. I'm not fond of the partial listing plus the full listing below. But, I'm too lazy to do much about it so I won't complain. :-) liblamb 04:44, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

The IT Bookshelf has been massacred! Books are missing and whole sections are gone. I'm going to try and clean it up a little bit, but I need another set of eyes to try and figure out what happened. I'm not talking just stuff moved to the new Computer Science bookshelf, but stuff that was supposedly moved there has not been moved but simply deleted. I'll see what can be done, and somebody else check over what I've done Rob Horning 20:38, 1 Jul 2005 (UTC)
 * I found out where everything went. There was a separate bookshelf just for Computer Science.  I was trying to find where some of the books went that were previously on the front page for the IT bookshelf, and somewhat legitimately it was missing.  I created a template for the front page that deals with just Computer Science, and put back some of the books that were there, as well as the broad categories that were previously deleted due to the reorganization.  On the whole, I think it has turned out pretty well, and something long overdue.  Thanks is due to User Darklama for doing most of the heavy lifting.  I did, however, put Computer Programming languages back into this bookshelf, at least until it legitimately deserves its own totally separate spot on the front page... or until a substantial reorganization of the front page occurs somehow.Rob Horning 06:00, 2 Jul 2005 (UTC)

why all the computer sections
Why all the computer sections? I would like to contribute some of my knowledge, but the whole situation seems far too disorganized.

Is there a good reason why there are three? Computing bookshelf, Computer Science bookshelf and IT bookshelf. (unknown)


 * I'm wondering about the same myself. What about merging them? --Orderud 10:58, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think we need to merge the three book shelves. Here's what an ideal organization would be: That's just my two cents, but the differences between CS and IT are so great that they shouldn't belong on the same shelf.
 * 1) Computer Science -- the more "math-like" stuff you would get in college
 * 2) Programming -- language guides, library tutorials, programming tips and recipies
 * 3) IT -- about computer programs, using them, set up of networks, so long as you aren't writing much "code"

For example, a programming guide to the Python language would not be considered "computer science" unless perhaps it was really an intro book teaching programming (that just happened to use Python) or it was actually an advanced book teaching some other CS concept. Thus, there is a need to split CS with Programming (because, similarly, a guide to the MFC library is not a computer science topic either, in as much as a manual for repairing a car does not count as Physics). Further, a guide to using Photoshop wouldn't be considered programming nor computer science, so we need an IT shelf. --MShonle 18:56, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Merging with Programming:Serial Data Communications

 * This discussion was copied to here from Talk:Serial communications bookshelf.

See also Talk:Programming:Serial Data Communications

This is a bookshelf, not a Wikibook. It isn't my fault that the rest of the Wikibooks on this bookshelf are dead and not making any progress. IMHO, get rid of the merge request and let this bookshelf stay quiet or merge it somehow into the Computer Science bookshelf. This is just a Wikibook organizational tool. Considering that this bookshelf has stayed more stable for the past several months while the Computer Science bookshelf has been heavily modified and broken off from the Information Technology bookshelf with other massive reorganizations goes to show that perhaps this bookshelf is needed anyway. --Rob Horning 04:09, 5 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Oops... I admit not reading enough of the material to check if this was a good merge. I only assumed that all pages called "Serial Programming:..." were part of Programming:Serial Data Communications because Serial Programming is currently a redirect there. I forgot that some stuff is not using WB:NC/WB:NP.


 * It seems that this page is a list of books, like Physics. So merging the books into another book (even if that book has chapters starting with "Serial Programming:...") is a bad idea. I will be removing the merge notices soon. --Kernigh 03:19, 6 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I would like to suggest instead that someone changes the Serial Programming redirect to go to this module. --Kernigh 03:24, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Merged into IT bookshelf
I decided to put these books in a "Serial Communications" section of the existing "Hardware" section of the IT bookshelf. These books are about programming (so they could be put on Computer Science bookshelf too) but they are also about hardware. --Kernigh 21:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)