Wikibooks:Requests for permissions/Harrybrowne1986

Upload Access, Administrator Permission & Check-User Access
Hello All.

I am a regular editor and reviewer at both WB and WP. I contribute mostly to the German Book on WB. Apart from the same I also am a counter vandalism personal, and keep a watch on the reviews and edits at both the places.

I am currently requesting the following:

1. Upload access here at WB for uploading images and media files (voice recordings and images for German Language), towards the book contribution. I am at office most of the times, and we have media restrictions on media web pages, which is Wiki Media and Commons. Apart from that many a times I have faced troubles uploading on the Commons, and thus would request if, the Upload access is granted to me out at WB.

2. I am a regular Vandal and Spam rain checker. Not only that I see that we have very few Admin Levels (8 to be precise of whom Xania is on a break for some time, and out of Quite, Pi, Dark and Recent, I see Quite and Pi on a regular basis, making only 2 active ones), who are granted to provide Page Protections, Blocks, Vandal Blocks etc, which in order to get actioned, at times take long If I get the rights, I can take actions on the request as and when I am able to on them. I will also be able to do rain checks on the pages, users and the activities. Currently, or rather today I did 20+ reviews of the edits and also reverted few of them. Glad, if can get the sysops right.

3. I would also like to get the Check-User access, which I see is also with very limited people (3 to be precise, if I am not wrong), and see that I can be of use here too. Hope to get the same as well.

Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works 17:10, 7 September 2014 (UTC)


 * This is quite clearly three separate requests, for which quite separate criteria apply. I would re-enter your requests, following the format as laid out in the top of the page. For the record, I uploader,  admin, and strongly  CU. Chazz (talk) 01:24, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Uploader Access
Firstly I would apologies as I entered the access request for all three into one. I am posting all as individual requests. Also Chazz, thank you for your support for this.

As stated earlier, I request Upload access here at WB for uploading images and media files (voice recordings and images for German Language), towards the book contribution. I am at office most of the times, and we have media restrictions on media web pages, which is Wiki Media and Commons. Apart from that many a times I have faced troubles uploading on the Commons, and thus would request if, the Upload access is granted to me out at WB. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works 08:30, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

After reading the reasons for the request it simply does not conform to requirements of the function of uploader. As an alternative solution to User:Harrybrowne1986 problems he may request help from someone at Commons to a) find a proxy that works b) serve as a proxy for the uploads. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 00:42, 15 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello Panic. Thank you for the suggestion. However, as I already stated, the main reason I am asking is, I face issues with uploads in Commons, and many a times the Uploads fail. In those cases, my bandwidth goes for a toss, and also my time. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 18:16, 19 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Again I don't see in there any reason to grant you the tools to upload what would be by our rules unacceptable files into Wikibooks. Seek a proxy that can do the work for you without requiring us to create an exception and a workload to deal with your issues. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 21:00, 19 September 2014 (UTC)


 * I do not see where did I state that I wish to upload any unacceptable file? Please read again, as I specifically mentioned the files are dated about 50 years. Also, I request you to let me know, what do you mean by when you said "deal with your issues". Where and what is the issue here? If I face trouble uploading, and if I say I lose my time and my bandwidth after trying to upload something, is this an issue? I also do not see any reason behind all of these things, like "My English Skills", "My Issues"! All I know is that I have a "Neutral English", and that I do not find any proper justification in the way things have been picked on my requests. I might be new compared to some of the others, but I do have to say this, that I am really surprised at the way I am being treated here. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 18:33, 23 September 2014 (UTC)


 * If a file is acceptable at Commons it is automatically not acceptable here.
 * Deal with your issues means deal with your problems. Problems that are exclusive to yourself.
 * I did no comment on you English skills and I find them not relevant if you at least can understand our policies and guidelines and fill up the required upload information.
 * I do agree that people have gone in a tangent when they should have clearly simply opposed your request on enough valid grounds. If you look at the archives you may notice that you aren't being treated differently that everyone else in the past. You also didn't help your cause by initiating discussions for several flags at the same time. I am opposing you in this one request because no one else was and you certainly (for what I understood) would be uploading files that wouldn't be acceptable here, since the cornerstone of the request is to use our project to upload files that you aren't' capable of uploading to Commons on technical problems, not license issues. At Wikibooks we only accept some Non-free media files as defined in our Media policy. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 21:38, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Comments

 * For the record, I uploader. Chazz (talk) 01:24, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * If I'm reading this correctly, requester seems to be saying that upload to commons is blocked at his workplace and he believes upload to WB may not be. I'm a little concerned that if he starts uploading to WB from his workplace, his workplace may respond by shutting down upload to WB as well... and maybe all access to all Wikimedia sites. Companies have been known to do that sort of thing... but if that's a risk requester wants to take with his entire company, and if he understands fair use and copyright issues, then my support remains in place... though shaken, I have to admit, by QU's comments below. Chazz (talk) 18:25, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Don't get me wrong, once I understand the request properly I'm happy to consider it - I just don't understand it properly and I'm not really comfortable with uploading material here that should be at Commons most particularly as we don't have the volunteers to police the uploads like they do to ensure copyright compliance. I can grant the permission, remove the permission if abused and delete any bad uploads here so I'm not overly concerned about ensuring "perfection in understanding" first - unlike the admin and CU requests. QuiteUnusual (discuss • contribs) 18:34, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Chazz & Quite. I actually missed reading out this portion earlier. My office blocks only those sites, from which it has open source and data vulnerability issues, like commons, as it has its back-end data source on open library forum. Apart from commons, all other sites are open, till the time, the link do not lead to any porn, or inappropriate sites/topics/forum. Unlike commons, where, I agree and, no doubt had a lot of trouble, due to my own mistakes, I understand my responsibility here, and have always portrayed it. Also, the site Commons is blocked totally, and not just uploads, but none of the other projects are blocked, as are required at times for reference in our work. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 10:28, 14 September 2014 (UTC)


 * This request is out of line with the reason the uploader flag is granted. It is only granted to those needing to upload non-free media that is unacceptable on Wikimedia Commons. QuiteUnusual (discuss • contribs) 08:40, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Not too sure of the abrupt ending of the sentence Quite and out of line! What I understand, is that I wish to upload a lot of audio files, and other images for the scope of German, and which is way too tedious to be done from Commons, and, since, I cannot access Commons from my work place, (wherein I work on WB/WP, when I get time), I will not be able to get the file codes, and also, the media linkage on the server gets too high. People do get the uploader access here as well, if it pertains out of non free media uploads as well. Please let me know, if this is feasible for the grant? Danke Schôn. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 08:59, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't understand why you think the upload would be "tedious" at Commons but okay at Wikibooks? Can you explain why you think uploading at Wikibooks would be easier? QuiteUnusual (discuss • contribs) 09:18, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * You also seem to have received a lot of comments on your talk page at Commons (here) that suggests you don't understand free media and copyright rules. Is that what you mean by having difficulty with Commons? If so, you'll have the same problems here. And I see you have had images deleted as copyright violations from Wikipedia too. None of this suggests we should let you do the same here - QuiteUnusual (discuss • contribs) 11:59, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I know that I have a lot of removals from commons, and I agree to the points (to a certain extend of course), as I believe, that what I did was lack of knowledge at that time. If you would see, post those comments, I have uploaded images of my own, and while I continued my fight against vandalism. I am not sure, if you looked the dates up on WP, for images which got deleted. I believe, anyones can commit a mistake (me, you or anyone else). If that person comes out of it, and still is chased for the same thing again and again for no valid reason, it is just showing less respect for the other good deeds of his. The images and media (audio) files I am speaking about uploading here are for the German book, and are dated more than 50 years. So, they anyways can be uploaded here. The fact I said about the commons trouble, is that my system at times gets stuck due to some error, and the uploads do not get completed. This I have faced lot of times, only in commons. Still, if you do not wish to grant me one, I am fine with it. Jai Jinendra Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 13:44, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I would probably support this request if all of the other comments hadn't been here. I can fully understand the problem and here in Italy websites are routinely blocked without warning.  Commons and Source were both unavailable on many ISPs for most of June and July.  Do we now judge people based on their actions on other Wikimedia sites?  If that's the case why don't we just use global blocks for everything and global permissions rather than local ones?--ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_the_Isle_of_Mann.svg|15px]]talk 19:20, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Administrator Permission
Again, as I mentioned earlier, I am a regular Vandal and Spam rain checker. Not only that I see that we have very few Admin Levels (8 to be precise of whom Xania is on a break for some time, and out of Quite, Pi, Dark and Recent, I see Quite and Pi on a regular basis, making only 2 active ones), who are granted to provide Page Protections, Blocks, Vandal Blocks etc, which in order to get actioned, at times take long If I get the rights, I can take actions on the request as and when I am able to on them. I will also be able to do rain checks on the pages, users and the activities. Currently, or rather today I did 20+ reviews of the edits and also reverted few of them. Glad, if can get the sysops right.

I request Chazz, to let me know the reason for, as I am not sure why, he is stating this. I might be able to work on the point, for the reason he is opposing.

Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works 08:30, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Questions

 * 1) Can you explain the reasons you issued a "no spam, no vandalism" warning to the IP editors who made this edit and this edit? I would judge neither as vandalism - one is poor quality but a good faith edit, the other is a valid correction. You seem to have a fairly high rate of issuing incorrect warnings which coupled with your relatively weak English language skills and lack of experience (less than 1,000 edits across all projects) suggest to me that you are not ready to be trusted with block and delete buttons. However, please feel free to explain your actions. QuiteUnusual (discuss • contribs) 10:15, 8 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Hello Quite. I agree with you that, I misjudged, and, placed incorrect message for the mentioned IP users. I have gone ahead and amended the message for both. I know that I do not commit high rate of issuances of incorrect warnings and that I am very good with my language skills. I have been from my school days, and still am. So, I am not being able to understand why you are mentioning relatively weak English language skills? I am aware too, that I have less than 1,000 edits. I generally do less of editing, and am more of into either fighting vandalism or into my WB German Project. Apart from that I do not get to much time over the weekdays to log-in. The way I have committed some mistakes, the same might have gone for you in your initial days. Everybody is given a chance, and that too, I am not asking it to flaunt, that see, I have these rights, but too do good for WB. I used to do it previously as well, and will continue to do it. I try to learn from my mistakes and thus I work on them. It is to see how I fair and not what mistakes I have committed in the past. It is good to keep in mind, but not good to stop the future, by dwelling in the past. I hope that I am clear in my English! Jai Jinendra Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 14:30, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding "relatively weak English skills": I will not argue with your education, but there is a very great difference between excellent English education and the way a native speaker uses the language. Quite clearly from your writing, while you have a good knowledge of English, you are not a native speaker of the language. In the first few sentences of the above, I note the following infelicities in grammar: "I do not commit high rate of issuances of incorrect" missing "a" before "high rate" and unnecessary form "issuances" over-complicates the entire clause; "I am not being able to understand why you are mentioning" "not being able" is not proper English grammar in this sentence, "being" does not belong; "I generally do less of editing" superfluous "of". I cannot comment on the other items you discuss here. Chazz (talk) 17:55, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you Chazz. When I mentioned the first point without an a, I knew that it was not required, in the sentence. I also framed a proper sentence, when I used issuances, in order to make my point clear. In "Not being able", I agree, being should not have been used, as it really does not belong in the sentence. I should have framed it in a much better way, like, 'I am unable to understand, why you are mentioning/why you mentioned', and that would have been a proper construction. To be frank, when a person literally points a finger at you, and states it in a manner as placed earlier: [You seem to have a fairly high rate of issuing incorrect warnings which coupled with your relatively weak English language skills], especially, when it was mentioned, [weak English], it pinched a lot, as I know, that although I am not a native speaker, my skills are no way below par, and I do not need to prove it. No doubt, I have a tendency to use US English more, than the UK one, however, I try to be fair, and use a proper one, as I know many native speakers, using completely incorrect English. Jai Jinendra Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 18:19, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Comments

 * For the record, I admin. Chazz (talk) 01:24, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Chazz, request you to let me know, the reason for opposing. Danke Schôn. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 08:59, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course, now that there is an appropriate venue. Each project in Wikimedia has its own feel, its own style if you will, and it takes time on a project to understand that local milieu. An administrator must understand that style if he is to work effectively. With possibly five hundred edits on WB, most of them simple reversals of vandalism, I do not believe that you have had the necessary exposure to learn the style of this project, which is quite different from WP. For vandalism reversals, admin permission is not needed, rollback is quite sufficient. Chazz (talk) 15:22, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Chazz. Thanks for the comment. May I know, what do you mean by Of course, now that there is an appropriate venue.. Just wanted to know, if you thought, my work is all wrong or something like that? Might be I do things differently, which you thought to be wrong! I am trying to do things in a proper manner, and am being just as per the requirements. No one is perfect, and neither am I. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 17:15, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * When you were asking for all three permissions at the same time, there was no space to comment on your request for admin separately from the others. That was all that I meant there. But I'm afraid my concern remains: your work on this project has been largely vandalism reversals, which don't require understanding of the "project culture", something that is different from one project to another. And without seeing more creative work, whether editing or actually writing, I have no way to judge whether you understand the culture of EN:WB. Chazz (talk) 17:53, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello Chazz. Firstly, I would like to apologies, if I sounded rude (which I believe I did). I did not mean to. Secondly, please help me understand what is meant by project culture, as I have done more than just reverts. I have been, and am currently contributing for the German book. Also, few other edits. Apart from that I do reviewing, Welcome newcomers, try and help others, and also learn on the way. :) Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 18:23, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, the fact that you feel that it is a reasonable thing to request admin privileges when you have only a few hundred edits under your belt would be a strong indicator that you have some problems understanding the culture here. EN:WB moves more slowly than many other projects, despite having a lot of articles and contributors. The key point, I guess, is that I don't really feel that anything has appeared in your edit log that would really allow me to know whether or not you fit into this project... and the sudden appearance looking for high office does sort of argue against.
 * On the English issue, I don't doubt your abilities when you're really trying... but you don't try all the time, nobody does. And in the paragraph of yours just above this response, I would like to point out "apologies"... Chazz (talk) 01:32, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * On the English issue, I don't doubt your abilities when you're really trying... but you don't try all the time, nobody does. And in the paragraph of yours just above this response, I would like to point out "apologies"... Chazz (talk) 01:32, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

btw, I feel like you are hat collecting. Idk you very well, and the poor English skills makes you look confusing to communicate with. --goldenburg111 (talk) 21:22, 14 September 2014 (UTC)


 * Not sure, what people here consider English as! I have very good communication skills, and all I can see is everyone JUDGING as if they are the best. Please, where do I portray anything 'confusing' and 'poor skills'? Also to let you know, I am not hat collecting. I also do not know you. I would request you to not just jump to Do not just jump to any conclusion, and do not to be judgmental. It shows a bad picture of the people here. Sorry to say this, but it feels like, I gave the opportunity for the people who had to vent out. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 22:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

CheckUser Access
The last but not the least, access request for CU.

I would also like to get the Check-User access, which I see is also with very limited people (3 to be precise, if I am not wrong), and see that I can be of use here too. Hope to get the same as well.

Not repeating myself, but still I am not sure why (and I am rather curious of this) Chazz states strongly for this?

Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works 08:30, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Questions and comments

 * Please explain your understanding of the CheckUser policy, what the tool is used for, and how to interpret its results. QuiteUnusual (discuss • contribs) 08:33, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * First and foremost, I do not see, how a trust is built, if the tendency is more of neglecting all the positive things one does. Earning the trust is what matters the most, which I agree to. However, if the person is not given the chance to earn it, and just is being opposed to for everything, I believe there is nothing I can do in that case. How would you know if a person is worth it or not, if he is not given the time to prove it. I might be right, might be wrong in saying that "I do not trust you or anyone else". Then what to do? We all have to go hand in hand, and trust can only be gained in the time that goes by. This is my criteria of understanding the level required to trust a person. What is the understanding of others, I am not aware of.

As for understanding what CU Policy is, all I have to say is, as a layman, that CU assists one to keep check on any disruptions or misleading edits to the project. This also assists one in maintaining the check and providing vital information, in order to stop any disruption caused by an IP or User, for any kind of Sock Puppetry and if required put a block/report for future edits from the requisite address/user. One thing I would say, is that I do require assistance taking into consideration, the time other CU's have given here, and of course looking at the changes that have occurred from the time Wiki started; from the time the CU's have started. So..

I am not saying that I want it so badly, that I would argue too much about it, but all I am saying is that I am sure, I am the last person to misuse any power granted to me(be it any privilege). I also know that this access is a very big deal as Chazz stated, and also I appreciate the nature of CU Pi, that it cannot be and is not the same as admin privilege. However, I am certain, that I will not, as I stated earlier, misuse any power, and before doing anything, which I am not sure of, will take assistance from others, as I do, in any case, where I am stuck. I further understand that this is a very big responsibility, and should be provided to only those users, who can be trusted, and who understand the right to it. Jai Jinendra Vishal Bakhai - Works 16:06, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * You have demonstrated my concern clearly. You have explained what you think the CU tool is used for, not the CU policy. Please explain the CU policy as this governs the use of the tool. If you don't understand the policy, you can hardly be trusted to use the tool in line with that policy.QuiteUnusual (discuss • contribs) 20:33, 13 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The CU Policy as I understand is as follows:

Any CU is governed by ->
 * 1) The CU Policy
 * 2) The Privacy Policy
 * 3) The Magic-8-Ball fundamental

The CU & Privacy Policy state: The policy prohibits disclosure of any personal information, unless there is a breach or violation of any policy (e.g., spamming, vandalism, continuous disruption of pages, voiding policies, etc.,). If and only if revealing information about the concerned person/ip is what will help in prevention of the said disruption, then only should the information be revealed, else, it is considered a breach of trust and privacy policy. It is another name for data protection, and it is very important, as the private information could be misused by anyone for any purpose. One exception in restrictive manner is (though not exactly, but for understanding bit), in case one has revealed their own information in the stated project/post.

The privacy policy is very much clear about the same. The following are the "When is the personal information used":
 * 1) With Your Permission (requested for a Wikimedia scholarship, or if requested for a reason)
 * 2) For Legal Reasons (on order from the court, law, company legal requirements, etc,)
 * 3) If the Organization is Transferred (Really Unlikely!) (Mergers, Acquisitions, if)
 * 4) To Protect You, Ourselves & Others (possible violation, threat, breaches, etc.,)
 * 5) To Our Service Providers (third-party service providers or contractors)
 * 6) To Understand & Experiment (to protect, develop and contribute)
 * 7) Because You Made It Public (information posted by the person him/herself)

Also during the following situations: It is to be remembered specifically that Wikimedia policy does not permit public distribution of such information under any circumstances, except as described above.
 * 1) In response to a valid subpoena or other compulsory request from law enforcement,
 * 2) With permission of the affected user,
 * 3) When necessary for investigation of abuse complaints,
 * 4) Where the information pertains to page views generated by a spider or bot and its dissemination is necessary to illustrate or resolve technical issues,
 * 5) Where the user has been vandalizing articles or persistently behaving in a disruptive way, data may be released to a service provider, carrier, or other third-party entity to assist in the targeting of IP blocks, or to assist in the formulation of a complaint to relevant Internet Service Providers,
 * 6) Where it is reasonably necessary to protect the rights, property or safety of the Wikimedia Foundation, its users or the public.

It is much better, if the personal information is not revealed, even if the user is committing abuse, if it is possible, and only reveal information about, which says, 'same network, or not the same service provider', rather than IP. It is better not to give any information from one's end if the person is in doubt.

As per the Magic-8-Ball fundamental, it is a very good thing to, not reveal anything, in certain situations, and give possible answers like the specified 20 (10 +-ive, 5 --ive, 5 Neutral):
 * 1) It is certain
 * 2) It is decidedly so
 * 3) Without a doubt
 * 4) Yes definitely
 * 5) You may rely on it
 * 6) As I see it, yes
 * 7) Most likely
 * 8) Outlook good
 * Yes
 * 1) Signs point to yes
 * 2) Reply hazy try again
 * 3) Ask again later
 * 4) Better not tell you now
 * 5) Cannot predict now
 * 6) Concentrate and ask again
 * 7) Don't count on it
 * 8) My reply is no
 * 9) My sources say no
 * 10) Outlook not so good
 * 11) Very doubtful

Basically, it is the same, and has high responsibilities associated with it. I find the Guide, Policy, and the Wiki Privacy Policy, very helpful for this.

I hope, I have mentioned as requested. However, I am sure, time teaches more, and just theoretical knowledge is not sufficient for anything. Practical knowledge is very much required in order. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works 13:03, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

This discussion seems too extensive and does not focus on what people are objecting to in order to result in a positive outcome. In fact the request was premature as the community has generally only granted the tool to standing administrators that have been supporting the project for a significative time-frame, unless there is an emergency as such this will always result in opposition to requests that do not conform to the norm, making the discussion unnecessary as nothing that the proponent may say will change these facts. Unless User:Harrybrowne1986 has some rational that would supplant the common practice (that he clearly was not aware of, in itself showing that he does not have the necessary experience) he should just retract the request. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 00:32, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Oppose

 * 1) For the record, I... strongly  CU. Chazz (talk) 01:24, 8 September 2014 (UTC) As to why, part of that is the reasons I stated above, regarding unfamiliarity with the culture of this project. The user's relative inexperience also leads me to believe this user does not understand what a big deal CU is, with its potential to violate user privacy. CU requires trust from the project's users, and I have seen nothing to suggest that the requestor has yet earned that trust. Chazz (talk) 15:28, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 2)  Checkuser is a very, very big deal. I don't think the requester appreciates what a big deal it is. It's certainly not something to be mentioned in the same breath with requesting admin.  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 12:33, 8 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 3) Strong  It does not look like you know the tools very well. I have a good feeling you are hat collecting, in which requesting rights in which you do not need. Thanks. --goldenburg111 (talk) 21:19, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I just believe, that no one knew the tool properly, before using them, and they did get the access to it. To let you know once more, I am not hat collecting, and I do know the tools which I use. If I do not know, I learn them, and excel. Jai Jinendra. Vishal Bakhai - Works[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|15px]] 22:13, 14 September 2014 (UTC)