Wikibooks:Requests for permissions/Eurodyne

(reviewer)
As part of SWMT, I run into a lot of vandalism and spam here on the English Wikibooks. I have a good handful of deleted edits (about 50) and do have some reverts here. It would be nice to have my edits automatically marked as patrolled and the rollback tool to help me. (The global twinkle sometimes gives me issues) I am a wide xwiki contributor with edits on over 200 projects. I also have the sysop flag on the Simple English Wiktionary. Thanks! Eurodyne (discuss • contribs) 22:34, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have no problem making such a rights change immediately - I will do so if someone else concurs. Being a sysop elsewhere, having a history here fighting vandalism and helping with SWMT is enough for me.--ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_the_Isle_of_Mann.svg|15px]]talk 19:23, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Why continue to create exceptions and be intrinsically unfair in regards of why and how we bypass the automation process...
 * I also do not see the rational of treating people differently because of the flags they have elsewhere, especially when no project is equal even if we include other Wikibooks.
 * There is also the issue that regrettably the reviewing process is not the same as the patrol process. Using the page review simply as a patrol tool is prone to cause content quality decline (I have previously objected to making the review system permanent just because of this issue). The patrol function is a requirement to fight vandalism but the reviewing action requires deeper commitment in the analysis and capability to process the contributed content. Avoid using the review tool for patrol and preserve it for quality guarantee. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 05:25, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * In light of the above I will leave it for other editors to decide. I like exceptions because rules need exceptions and with global usernames we can take activity on other projects into consideration.  The review function is used almost entirely as an anti-vandalism tool even if it were created for another purpose.  On that premise I think we can conclude that this user is certainly no vandal.  I have never used the patrol thing and can't find any easy way to see which pages have been patrolled or not (except in Recent Changes) whereas the Review tool is easier to manage.  Anyway, I'll let y'all decide.--ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_the_Isle_of_Mann.svg|15px]]talk 16:04, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * In general exceptions are often the avenue to promote exceptionalism. One should always regard them with motivational suspicion and require them to be exerted rarely or they cease to be exceptional.
 * This comes also attached to the wrong notion that procedures, protocols and bureaucracy is intrinsically evil, no so, as anything they serve a purpose, a function, as exceptions do...
 * While I agree that activity outside of the projects can be used to validate a person, its weight should not be a deciding factor but only to qualify extreme behavior. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 17:26, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Xania, What is the status on this? Eurodyne (discuss • contribs) 23:33, 2 December 2014 (UTC)re
 * There isn't much I can do until others contribute to the discussion. I can't discount Panic2k4's valid points given his/her extensive contributions to the project.--ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_the_Isle_of_Mann.svg|15px]]talk 06:53, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * While I see Panic's words, I'm afraid I must disagree with them. As I see it, the automated promotion protocol is specifically intended, by its nature, to shepherd the new editor / writer through the early stages of his apprenticeship, giving him the power to review edits once he has shown the ability and perseverance to achieve a minimal level of seniority. In this case, as we have had before, the editor in question is not new, and in fact is not joining to edit directly, but is offering to assist with the patrol functions on the site. This is, in my opinion, the reason exceptions are made. The autopromote suits the majority of our users; we simply need to recognize the ones that it does not suit, and deal with them on a case by case basis. Chazz (talk) 09:13, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * weak oppose The nominee's qualifications are marginal, and at first I chose to stay out of this for that reason (either Panic or I is typically the first to object to early granting of the review bit); but on reflection, I'm not sure why the nominee needs the review bit, to justify granting in this marginal case.
 * Although the nominee has fifty-two deleted edits, all of them speedy-deletion noms that were accepted, you don't need the review bit to tag a page for speedy deletion. Also, Panic and I agree, I think, that the reason autopromotion is delayed is not merely to guarantee the user has experience, but that they have experience with what makes Wikibooks different from other sister projects &mdash; and you don't learn much about what makes Wikibooks different by looking at pages that don't belong here.  (Panic might put more emphasis than I would on the quality-control aspect of review, but I acknowledge there is some quality control involved, and even anti-vandalism benefits from some local understanding.  My sense is that Chazz's comments underemphasize the local experience aspect.)
 * A bunch of the nominee's non-deleted edits are reversions of vandalism. You don't the review bit to do that, either.
 * Since I'm not sure what Eurodyne wants to do with the bit, I don't know how to judge whether they have the local experience for what they want it for. --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 12:58, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I currently use global twinkle here and a lot of the times, the script is slow and gives me issues. Having the regular 'rollback' (which is included in the reviewer package) would be helpful considering these problems.  I know that these types of requests have passed in the past and thought mine would too.  I think I am a trusted cross-wiki  user who hasn't had a history of abusing userrights in the past.  As I don't think that autopromotion is even close to me, it would be helpful if these rights were granted manually.  Of course if this ends up as not done, I won't stop fighting vandalism and spam here.  Eurodyne (discuss • contribs) 00:40, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I'm changing my "week oppose" to "neutral".  Your interest, so I understand, is primarily in rollbacker.  I suppose you understand enough not to go wild with the review bit itself, and that satisfies me.  With that understanding, I have no lingering objection.  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 22:06, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Pinging Xania is there a final result here? Eurodyne (discuss • contribs) 19:42, 7 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Pi zero, Xania, if we have one support and one neutral does come to a consensus? Eurodyne (discuss • contribs) 00:48, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * To clarify my position I'm not opposed, even if I don't see, even now, an urgency that validates the process. I was responding to Xania's post, since he clearly was requesting comments in face of previous discussions on the subject...
 * In any case Eurodyne is now fully informed on the pertinent issues, so one more exception will not break the trend. But if this continues we should probably think about relaxing the automation even more or drop it and formalize a set of more lose requirements that everyone can read and be matched too, in a faster decision process like the upload requests. Note that this erodes away the argument that revisions are primarily for content quality control (versus page patrol), with implications to the continual use of the scheme in contrast to the better option we had before for the patrol task. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 01:35, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Panic, it sounds like you and I are pretty much in agreement about this nomination. On broader issues of flaggedrevs, though, I don't appreciate revisionism.  The autopromotion criteria are not objectively predicated on a supposition that revisions are primarily for content quality control.  The state of things before we adopted flaggedrevs was not objectively better for anti-vandalism than flaggedrevs is.  And we did not adopt flaggedrevs on some sort of trial basis giving you veto power over its continuation.  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 05:40, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * While we are in agreement about these requests in the general subject of the flaggedrevs we are not on the same side of the discussion I see the "new" scheme as unnecessary and often causing more issues than being beneficial (even if I appreciate the benefits for the protection of Wikijunior, but see it more as an hack, we are using the tool in reverse in that specific case). I saw the previous method much more useful to fight vandalism (even if with filtering the issue of page patrol has decreased in relevance). That was the point of this request and it is in that function that I see most people "rushing" to process pending revisions.
 * As for the adoption and continuation of flaggedrevs, even if I'm neutral on the subject, I have from the start commented against how the process was run and how the scheme was adopted seemingly in a permanent way. In it, it was indeed consensual (to the few participants) only to adopt it in a trial base and the community would later decide if it should be made permanent (at the time we were very uncertain on how it worked and what could be tweaked to our needs). This is a point I try always to make clear since I would second any request for communal reevaluation from the point of validating its permanence (in place of requesting consensus for its removal/reversal). This stance is probably why you are reading my statements as you are... --Panic (discuss • contribs) 10:32, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Panic, to be clear, I don't claim you're doing these things on purpose; in fact, my guess is you're not doing them purpose. You have a consistent tendency to take a stance on a question of procedure, which others do not share, and then you want to discuss the procedure, instead of actually discussing whatever issue the procedure was being used to address, saying that independent of your stance on the issue, you want to see that proper procedure is observed &mdash; but proper procedure keeps turning out to favor your stance on the issue.  As I say, I don't think you do this deliberately; it's the sort of behavior pattern that's a lot harder for the person doing to see than it is for others to see from the outside.
 * Re the original flaggedrevs vote, whenever this comes up I eventually find myself rereading the record of the actual vote, and the consensus-to-reevaluate that you maintain is there simply isn't there. I can see how, if you really want to find it, you could talk yourself into believing it was there, but what was actually said doesn't imply such a consensus.  Folks said they might reconsider later on; that's nothing like saying the whole thing is on trial and in six months we will reconsider and won't continue it unless we decide all over again to do so.  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 13:23, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * As this sidenotes we often engage in are stressing Xania and since silence in this type of forums is often taken as agreement I make note here that I have replied to your assertion in your talk, that I disagree with (the negative connotations as presented). --Panic (discuss • contribs) 22:15, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I am lost as this conversation has turned away from discussing the merits of giving you these rights into a general discussion about policy, anti-vandalism and flagged revisions. I should add that I  the request so I'll take a closer look later.--ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_the_Isle_of_Mann.svg|15px]]talk 10:55, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Good for you. Despite the cross-talk (in which I'm complicit), this is one specific decision, concerning a user of good repute, on which we've had some mature discussion with some support and nobody actually opposed.  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 13:23, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Although I hope this doesn't take to long, please feel free to take your time.  Thank you!  Eurodyne (discuss • contribs) 04:30, 10 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Has this request made any progress? Eurodyne (discuss • contribs) 23:27, 16 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I have made the changes as this discussion appears to have ended and nobody voiced strong opposition to your request. Concerns raised appear to have been more about the idea of such a discussion rather than about your request.  I will close this request and archive it when I have time (and when I remember the weird way of doing so).--ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_the_Isle_of_Mann.svg|15px]]talk 23:21, 17 December 2014 (UTC)