Wikibooks:Requests for deletion/Physics with transforms

Physics with transforms
Please note, this book is not very well structured the pages are: Physics with transforms - new invention, Physics with transforms:Table of Contents, Physics with transforms:Explanation & How to Use, Physics with transforms:The Transform, Physics with transforms:About the Author. I have moved the pages under to be together under the title Physics with transforms. I have the following problems with this book, it seems to have an uncertain copyright to me, at least some of the same text seems to be at this page, where it doesn't seem to be released under GFDL or Commons. It also seems to be the original research of the author which he would like to reproduce here. Overall it doesn't seem like textbook material to me, and I think it should be deleted. Thenub314 (talk) 18:34, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Delete or Userify Geoff Plourde (talk) 20:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Symbol comment vote.svg Comment Regarding the copyright it seems that version that is available on that external page is by the same person that contributed the Wikibook's version (on the bottom of the About Me section it references Wikibooks). This seem to verify that the work was contributed by the original author. --Panic (talk) 20:54, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Symbol comment vote.svg Comment I noticed this, but have two problems with accepting that it can be released here. First we have no way to verify these are in fact the same person, even if they probably are.  Secondly, the page at his website is not released under a free license, and (at least I thought) the same text cannot be released under two different copyrights, not even by the same author. Thenub314 (talk) 07:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It can. A text can be re-released with any license by its own author (or copyright holder), even contradictory licenses.
 * I think you are referring to the concept, that can seem contradictory, that an author can't take back work released under a free license (for example GFDL). You must take in consideration that the license is valid for a given copy of the work it is attached to (if all copies bearing the free license somehow disappear) legally the a non-user (a person that hasn't a copy with a license granting him the right, like the GFDL, a use and distribution license) doesn't have the option to re-release the work. (Electronically this is very complex and hard to verify if the work's versions are identical). To simplify it, think about printed books.
 * Free license in this case mustn't be a public domain license, in a PD situation all rights revert to the public. --Panic (talk) 07:36, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Physics with transforms:The Transform had a tag added to it by you, Thenub.  Please don't nominate books and then label them with a speedy delete or query.  Then they come up for speedy deletion and if an admin forgets or doesn't see they were nominated, they can end up deleting them and looking like they were disregarding the VfD. -- Adrignola talk contribs 21:01, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Symbol comment vote.svg Comment Sorry about that, it was a mistake on my part. I was trying to decided what to do with these pages treating them one time before, then decided they should be treated as a single book.  I intended to remove the two that I tagged after I posted the pages here, but became a bit distracted. Thenub314 (talk) 07:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Delete There's no way to know that Jariep is the same author as the website's creator. The website's content is copyrighted and no license compatible with Wikibooks is displayed on that site. Currently the Wikibooks only has structural elements (about the author, table of contents, etc.). Nobody will be able to add additional content to the book from this other website unless an OTRS submission is received. Given that and the lack of meaningful content, I don't see any reason to keep it. -- Adrignola talk contribs 13:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)


 * . Our Deletion policy mentions Avoid Copyright Paranoia. The website mentioned above has a page that currently says "Retrieved from http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Physics_with_transforms:About_the_Author".
 * That means that someone copied this book from Wikibooks to that website, right?
 * When the original author posts a book to Wikibooks, we assume by default that author wants us to keep that book at Wikibooks -- no matter who copies that book to some other website -- right?
 * If you convince me that the copying probably went the other direction, from that website to Wikibooks, then I will change my vote to "delete". --DavidCary (talk) 02:57, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * That website has every page of the book on it, complete, while the Wikibook has the same structure developing with little copied over or filled in other than the "about the author" page. The content on the pages is composed of images, which do not exist on Wikibooks.  Take a look at the explanation page in particular.  Everything on that page is an image, including the copyright at the bottom, dated 1971 and 1991.  I'm pretty sure Wikibooks didn't exist at that time.  The page this corresponds with, Physics with transforms/Explanation & How to Use, was created in April 2004.  Say the website is simply dating the creation date and not when it was put online.  You have the other links on the Wikibooks site that either have pages with only a table of contents on them or that haven't even been created.  How can someone copy content from Wikibooks that doesn't exist?  -- Adrignola talk contribs 03:27, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I thought that we were passed assuming that it was an copyrights issue. A quick fix would be attempting to contact the Wikibookian/Author, but as is I particularly don't see the relevance of the subject (and think that Thenub314 may be right on the original research bit) because of this I also agree with Adrignola when mentioning that as is the book has no content and probably never will (if the original contributor and presumable author doesn't contest the deletion and finishes the work, last edit was in 2004).
 * I would readily join you to block a deletion based in unvalidated suspicions of copyright infringement (I have always been strongly opposed to bring that point into a VFD, it should be resolved in the book context) as it always does promote band-wagoning for deletion. In any case you should rethink the keep vote based only on what is there or if you have a strong opinion on it try to reach the Wikibookian or author, or assure those voting for deletion that the book will have a future. --Panic (talk) 04:51, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I have now tagged the book with the missing tag of "Possible copyright infringement" and even if the book survives the VFD the tag shouldn't be removed until the issue is resolved. --Panic (talk) 05:05, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * PS: DavidCary the template imposes a deletion in 7 days, that change hasn't been subjected to community approval. The discussion on it on the Wikibooks talk:Deletion_policy. It has been a while I have used it and only now noticed that the opposed deep changes to the approved policy hadn't been addressed. That should be corrected (and it would be best if I wasn't the one doing those corrections). --Panic (talk) 05:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Please note that I put a notice on the author's talk page on August 10. -- Adrignola talk contribs 22:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If anyone still has an issue with the copyright status please look into Talk:Physics with transforms. --Panic (talk) 19:41, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Delete because even if there is no copyright problem with what's on WB now, nobody can continue to develop the book because nobody other than the owner of the copyright on the other site can copy the material over. It looks like OR (based on a web investigation) so I don't see this book can ever go beyond its current stub in the absence of the original author. He / she is not responding to the deletion notice, so I say delete it. Unusual? Quite TalkQu 23:28, 18 December 2009 (UTC)