Wikibooks:Requests for deletion/Mesopotamian Marshlands

Mesopotamian Marshlands
This page is just structure, albeit very detailed structure, and has been almost since Wikibooks was created. It's kind of wierd anyway, unorganized (there is no logical point-to-point movement), and frankly the linked website is just impossible to understand.--Naryathegreat 23:59, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Granted that the linked website - Eden Again - may offer opportunities for enhancement, yet to me, to the participants in an October 2005 conference on the Marshes at Harvard  - and in the assessment of numerous international environmental and humanitarian bodies - eg UNEP [http:// tinyurl .com /5or4n] - the condition of the Marshes is clearly recognized as a major ecological and human rights disaster with profound historical and cultural implications. The Eden Again project has been a prime mover in mobilizing resources, including a remarkable opportunity for the application of a wide range of innovative and integrative approaches to ecologically sound restoration processes. Information Ecologist 21:35, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * No offense, but who cares? It may be a great project and all, but of what use is it to us as a textbook? - SamE 00:15, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Keep: The topic is well-focused, even topical, and could be useful (eventually) for instruction. Some people have very long cycle times before they are able to work on their projects again. MShonle 01:51, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC) Abstain: upon further review this has less to offer than I initially thought. MShonle 19:05, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Wikibooks deletion policy states: In general, delete pages that simply will never become instructional resource modules, for example, modules that represent completely idiosyncratic non-topics, etc.--Naryathegreat 02:52, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * In which case, somebody should have pointed out the policy before some serious work was put into the book. It's a little late now for such arguments. (the book may be abandoned while incomplete though, which is an entirely different matter) AlbertCahalan 04:00, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I have already compiled a substantial body of detailed information and analysis on the as-yet-unelaborated sections of the book, and have also identified - an in many cases, been in contact with or met - many of the leading experts on the condition of the Marshes. As I had noted in an earlier message on this page, current plans are to prepare an invitation for their participation in the 2005 Mesopotamian Summer - and to seek intern and volunteers to focus on different aspects of the condition of the Marshes. As for the interest, there was a great amount of interest, from diverse academic disciplines - represented at the Harvard Conference cited above in innovave and interdisciplinary curriculum resources, as well as appreciation for the invaluable role of the Internet in making the information available. Information Ecologist 21:44, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * If you have all of this detailed information already compiled, why not post it? The idea of a wiki is that users collaboratively work on a project, in Wikibooks' case, a textbook, until they reach the point where they can no longer improve it. There is almost no way anyone could reach that point by themselves, so why are you waiting to put this so-called "substantial body of detailed information" on the web. If the internet is an "invaluable" resource in spreading this information, then why is there nothing on the Wikibooks page? Your own arguments are self-contradictory. - SamE 00:15, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * There is enough wealth of information about mesopotamian marshlands that it could conceivably become a book. I think that qualification is more to discourage works like "Segway-Riding Soccer" or "Red is a Color" or "A History of the Colby College Student Lounge". MShonle 04:27, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * It's not exactly "Red is a Color", but this is pretty close. WTF? AlbertCahalan 03:48, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, hey, anybody tried contacting the initial author? (email, in case he doesn't log in here often) Probably this one is dead, but giving it plenty of time in VfD status would be polite I think. Not everybody can make it here every week without fail. AlbertCahalan 03:52, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't oppose Mesopotamian Marshlands, but what the heck is the New Eden Project? And what chance is there of anyone putting effort into a Mesopotamian Marshlands book, at least for the moment (honestly)?  And as for serious work, it's just a lot of structure that the original author promptly abandoned.  It might even have been a copy and paste job.  And anyway, it's hard to point out Wikipolicy before an action is taken...--Naryathegreat 22:41, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * This is a good question: Upon reviewing it again it does have a bit of that random feel, particularly the story about the landmines. It seems pretty hopeless it'll become anything more (and the probability of someone else coming along and expanding it seems pretty low). Perhaps I'll change my vote to abstain, but it seems fairly harmless to keep it. MShonle 22:51, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * The gist of it seems to be: have buzzword++ environmentally friendly living in the marshes, with an economy based on information. To put it bluntly, I guess this means web developers living in huts. Somebody tell these people about competition and the .com crash... AlbertCahalan 01:44, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Honestly, I don't understand how they managed to work the internet into the marshlands.. but they've done it. This book should be deleted, speedily.


 * Virtually everyone with whom I have discussed the approach has appreciated the amazing potential of a wireless internet and VOIP platform - in conjunction with solar energy - could serve as an ideal, ecologically sound and cost-effective platform for communication, education, access to information and health care, as well as for economic deelopment in areas where the provision of traditional power and sources would be very expensive and have substantial environmental impact. Information Ecologist 21:57, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Oooooh, amazing potential...but no actual output. This "approach" just isn't working. - SamE 00:15, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I sent User:Information_Ecologist an email a few days ago, and just now left a message on his talk page. BTW, he's started another strange book recently. Also, what the heck are IHWIL/2003, IHWIL/TRAVEL, and so on? AlbertCahalan 03:48, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

These books might really be outlines that he uses for public speakig. He is also using wikibooks for some sort of resume. IHWIL/2004 contains an interesting quote: "An emerging wikibook on Information Ecology, much of the body of the latest version was generated from the Digital Engine, Mark II; earlier version of those sections were generated from the Habitat3 Digital Engine." In other words, this is computer-generated text??? There is a section on the Mesopotamian Marshlands too. Then there is Alice_in_Cyberwonderland, which very nearly caused me to die. If you read down to October 2004 on the IHWIL/2004 page, you'll see that these "books" are being automatically generated out of a relational database. Woah.

delete - user's IHWIL/2004 page admits that these "books" are computer-generated from a relational database. They are program output from Novell DataPerfect, and thus not in the preferred form for editing. There's a lot more than just the Mesopotamian Marshlands one. AlbertCahalan 04:21, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

He appears to be a crafty link spammer. He has hit wikipedia and some other wikis too. (see Google) His web site URLs will need to be blocked at the wikimedia level. AlbertCahalan 05:33, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Delete - It has been there for a long time and the "cover" should be a clue that there is little in the way of scholarship despite the rather complete and detailed outline. - marsh 07:33, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Whoa am I glad I brought this up. It appears that maybe we should delete all of these pages, and possibly warn him, followed by some kind of ban for repeated violations.  This is a really wierd phenomenon than I don't wish to allow to spread.--Naryathegreat 20:18, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

'''I am adding the following pages because they are related to this Vote for deletion. It is clear that much of it is either a copy and paste job or computer generated (due to the incredible amount added in such a short space of time, and by the user's own admission at IHWIL/2004) They contain such ludicrous text as: "The ongoing transition to digital knowledge-based environments has seen a rapid proliferation and evolution of new forms of information species" (I wasn't aware information could evolve on its own!) and "With the ability to travel at the speed of light, information takes virtually zero time to travel. In the context of progressively increasing Travel at the speed of light" (okay, this is just wrong, information can only travel instantly at 0K, or absolute zero, that's why your internet isn't instant, duh-and also, too bad his "evolving information" can't speak correctly :-)--Naryathegreat 20:18, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Information Habitat: Where Information Lives (and its MULTITUDE of subpages) Information Ecology/Information species/Taxonomy Information Ecology/Information species Information Ecology/Information habitat Information Ecology/RGB Matrix Information Ecology/Properties Information Ecology/Table of Contents Information Ecology/Welcome Information Ecology


 * Please note I have begun making revisions to Information Ecology and am including a new case study - Civil Society Report - with a broader focus to document the conribution of Information Ecology, the Wiki platform, DataPerfect, and open source, open content resources. I might add that I will have an exceptionally talented intern during spring break who loves Wikipedia, who has exeptional editing and writing skills, and who is the reporter on Science & Technology for the Yale Daily News. I would greatly appreciate it if a grace period could be granted - for all of these books - so that I can finally begin to move into the next, collaborative phase of the growth of these Wikibooks. Information Ecologist 22:10, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Alice in Cyberwonderland Morphometrics Data Perfect (blank)


 * I have been making extensive preparations for the next phase of growth of the DataPerfect wikibook, which I had began shortly before my participation in a September 2005 DataPerfect Developers Conference and am preparing to invite the members of the active DataPerfect Users Discussion Group to contribute to the DataPerfect wikibook - as well as to the design & development of the Civil Society Report on a Culture of Peace, and to explore the opportunities for synergistic relationships between DataPerfect, the Wiki platform, Cascading Styles and other open source platforms. Information Ecologist 22:20, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Light Cubes (blank)

delete (reaffirm for the whole lot of 'em) Also, I put it up for speedy deletion. Automated program output does not deserve the same respect as the products of real human effort. Note: do not delete without first blocking his URL at the wikimedia level; he has hit wikipedia and a few other wikis as well. BTW, while checking his web page with a Googlebot user agent string might be interesting, it appears that his motive is to collect donations. People look at his pretty "peace cube" (RGB cube) and "prayer wheel" images, then send him money. AlbertCahalan 21:00, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Deleted (no content was there except the VfD template), deleted Talk page as well, since it only asked to delete the book. --Andreas 21:28, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

moved from speedy-delete
I thought it best to move things down here, since a human has finally shown up to explain things a bit. This is all still quite weird, and I don't think it is OK to have text that others don't really get to edit as a normal wiki, but anyway...


 * DataPerfect/Functions and more. User:Information Ecologist has contributed lots of computer-generated text. The page even says "This wiki page was generated from the DataPerfect FORMULA database." at the bottom. Basically everything from this user is computer-generated database dumps. He has hit Wikipedia and a few other wikis as well. In other words, he's a link spammer, and his URL will need to be blocked. AlbertCahalan 05:30, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I concede that many - but by no means all - of the pages I have posted in Wikibooks have been generated from databases, however, I would respectfully submit that to describe them simply as computer dumps and my activites as link spamming may not to justice to the methodology that is being used to draft these wikibooks - a methodology that is being designed through the development of data transfer mechanishms between DataPerfet Digital Engines and the Wiki engine.


 * A brief note may be in order as to DataPerfect, as despite its brilliance - it was first published in 1985 as a companion to WordPerfect for DOS and before that had served - through, inter alia, brilliant file and record locking design - as the engine for WordPerfect exceptional telephone support service. DataPerfect - and is author, Lew Bastian, who had earlier written some of the first disk-caching patents while at IBM - is alive and well, re-energized by a September 2004 DataPerfect Developers Conference that highlighted ways that DataPerfect engines can support web site development. See also an updated entry at Mesopotamian Marshlands. Information Ecologist 21:14, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Okay, this is simply silly. A casual study of these pages indicates that there is no value in them, no hope of the addition of content, and simply no reason to clog our servers with their contents.  None of it even makes a single sliver of sense- is anyone going to come here looking for Alice in Cyberwonderland?  The answer is a resounding NO!--Naryathegreat 00:51, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd feel a bit better about the books if all external links were removed. Automated page generation would have to stop too, excepting index pages generated purely from pages existing in the wiki. Not that I'd care for the books, but then they at least wouldn't look like link spamming. AlbertCahalan 01:21, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I would like to try and clear up what seems to be a general misnderstanding about the use of a database to generate pages in these wikibooks. I have been using the database to generate pages so as to develop and maintain a coherent structure for the books and consistent styles and formats for pages, from a sense that the design and format of a book plays a significant role in ite readability


 * However, the use of the database by no means prevents anyone from editing the pages or contributing to the wikibook. The methodology for these wikibooks entails an interactive process betwenn the Wiki platform and DataPerfect; new Wiki entries will be incorporaed into the database and new databse-generated pages will be generated. A secondary benefit from theis appreoach will be to enable publication of the wikibooks in other platforms - eg plain html, WordPerfect, Word, pdf for distribution on a CD=ROM - and with different formatetc. and include different formatting options - fonts, sizes, etc. Btw, One of the key sections of the DataPerfect wikibook, will focus on elaborating the details of the methodology for managing interfaces between DataPerfect and the Wiki platform. Information Ecologist 23:26, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

To I-E: you know, you can always try Wikicities or even setting up your own wiki server if you want, if these pages are to be deleted... Dysprosia 04:09, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Delete the whole list. Finally! It's been around a long time. Who needs an entire page (for that matter, several entire pages) of endlessly complicated layout, all with absolutely no information (with a few exceptions), "more to come"-type signs up, and little comments/headings that make it sound nice and happy, as well as internet- and wiki-praising. This doesn't even belong at Wikipedia, let alone Wikibooks. - SamE 00:15, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

It's time to delete every page Information Ecologist has created. It is simply stupid. It's just trolling is all it is and half of it is blank, boring, useless structure. And have you taken a look at the light cubes? Our servers are not free repositories for useless information!--Naryathegreat|(talk) 22:04, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)