Wikibooks:Requests for deletion/English-Hanzi

Certain pages were, but the main book was. 16:38, 20 August 2017 (UTC)}}

I've recently come across the contributions of User:Efex. If I understand this correctly, he is adding some random English text found online, and then translating this to ZH in order to create bilingual books aimed at fluency improvement for language learners. However, his EN texts are taken from copyrighted sources, so even his translations are copyright violations.

I certainly admire his dedication and consistency. However, we are currently hosting a plethora of copyvios, and this needs to be immediately dealt with. : contains the pages in question. These pages could easily be speedied, but, following the suggestion of Alex, I am listing the issue here in order to get the community involved and see if we can come up with an alternative solution to this problem.

Vito Genovese 07:09, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Apparently, : doesn't only contain copyvios (eg: English-Hanzi/A new year). So we would need to inventory each case to speedy. JackPotte (discuss • contribs) 19:06, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * For the record: there is also |Category:Pinyin.
 * Vito Genovese 19:28, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
 * the contributions of User:Efex. As a native Mandarin speaker, I have noticed many entries under |Category:Pinyin using Gwoyeu Romatzyh made in 1920s distinguishing different tones by different spellings but too complex to easily learn. Some entries under Pinyin are just dictionary materials. If I were already an administrator here, I would block this questionable user and massively delete the contributions thereof. Is there any Chinese-speaking administrator here yet?--Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 00:08, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Can you suggest why User:Efex might be doing these things? I think that would be helpful for us to understand; we've been aware for some months that the user's contributions include a lot of dictionary and news content that doesn't belong on Wikibooks, but I'd be much more comfortable if I had some working theory about what their motive might be.  (I'm not the slightest bit Chinese-speaking myself.)  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 02:51, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm honestly not sure why this was let to continue on for months, when it's quite apparent that a good portion of the content consists of copyright violations that do not belong on Wikibooks. I've deleted a few pages of the book already, before realizing it wasn't limited to just a few pages.. rather a good portion of them, which will all need to be checked now if the book is kept. --Az1568 (discuss • contribs) 11:28, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * With apologies because I was mailed about this a couple of weeks ago... I'm inclined to delete but want to consider it further. QuiteUnusual (discuss • contribs) 11:55, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

English-Hanzi is useful for learning Chinese as well as English. Could we amend the pages like this for avoiding copyright violation?--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 12:29, 29 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Leaving out some parts like that does not prevent a copyright problem, especially not if it's done on a massive scale. --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 17:57, 29 March 2017 (UTC)


 * We could amend all related articles if necessary.--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 20:18, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I do not even know who User:Efex really is. Many contributions are sentences being too disorganized to allow new Chinese learners to easily use, thus potentially out of scope, whether copyvio or not. Your answer may not be very helpful to keep your contributions.--Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 23:26, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Today I couldn't find any more copyright violation. Do you think we could close this vote please? JackPotte (discuss • contribs) 23:34, 12 June 2017 (UTC)


 * since (a) there is copyright violation; (b) the long list of very small pages is IMHO a dubious organization technique for such material; (c) the selection of material seems to be far from ideal for learning the language. I picked English-Hanzi/Broccoli is good for heart health and there I found this: 'In addition to reducing cholesterol, broccoli can aid in heart health by helping to keep blood vessels strong. The sulforaphane in broccoli is also an anti-inflammatory and may be able to prevent or reverse damage to blood vessel linings caused by chronic blood sugar problems.', which I also found at lifescience.com. While not every page in the category suffers from this problem, it seems to be best to deal with the pages on a summary level, seeing that the approach taken by the author was reckless toward copyright. This should be deleted ASAP. To give a further idea, : contains 286 pages, examples of which are English-Hanzi/A happy day, English-Hanzi/A new year, English-Hanzi/Activities for lowering blood pressure, English-Hanzi/Adrenal glands produce hormones, English-Hanzi/After school. The author offered to address the copyright problem like this; there, he changes e.g. "Brown rice helps stabilize blood sugar levels; therefore, it’s an excellent food choice for those suffering from diabetes" to "Brown rice helps to stabilize blood sugar levels and is therefore an excellent choice for patients with diabetes". This change does not really address the copyright problem, IMHO, but makes it harder to detect since there is no longer word-for-word match. This reinforces the idea that summary deletion is in order. --Dan Polansky (discuss • contribs) 09:23, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The above example English-Hanzi/A new year is a 100% original work. And the examples English-Hanzi/A happy day and English-Hanzi/After school are original works as well.--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 16:41, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm in agreement with Dan Polansky, about this set of pages. That leaves the much larger problem of Pinyin, but here we're considering English-Hanzi, and this set should be deleted.  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 12:01, 16 July 2017 (UTC)‎

You should find out the pages of copyright violation needed to be deleted but not all of the book.--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 10:32, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

English-Hanzi
This book is just a collection of phrases translated into Hanzi. This book should be scrapped and a new one started, and covers topics like food, how is your day, actions, etc. 01:26, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Train

 * English-Hanzi/Train: A train is a vehicle with a series of carriages. It runs on a railway. A train can carry a lot of passengers or cargoes.
 * This is not a page of copyright violation. --Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 22:01, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I did not list it here because it is a copy violation. I listed it here to show that it is a collection of sentences. 16:11, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Trump 'looks forward to visiting China

 * English-Hanzi/Trump 'looks forward to visiting China': US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson told Chinese President Xi Jinping that President Donald Trump is looking forward to visiting China to enhance understanding between the two countries.
 * For this example, I found this article on the BBC. 18:46, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * You should delete this page if it is copyright violated, but should not to delete the whole book.--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 21:12, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Wikibooks includes annotated texts--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 23:55, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * This is wrong. This is from the policy:
 * Although we do not permit verbatim copies of pre-existing works, we do permit annotated texts, which are a kind of text that includes an original text within it and serves as a guide to reading or studying that text. Annotated editions of previously published source texts may only be written if the source text is compatible with the project's license.
 * BBC has a non-Creative Commons copyright license. The text is incompatible. Also, even if it were correctly licensed, this is not a guide to reading or studying that text. 04:02, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * There are guides below the text helps to read and understand.--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 04:22, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * While that may be true, the text is still copyrighted. And also, here is the English guide:
 * US/ state secretary/ Rex Tillerson/ told/ China/ state chairman/ Xi Jinping, Ronald Trump/ president/ looking forward to/ visiting/ China, to enhance/ between both countries/ 's/ understanding.
 * Your book has not been verified, as you are using a translator. First of all, it is Donald Trump, not Ronald Trump. A native Hanzi speaker needs to check over the book.  13:46, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Deleted this one as unverified news that may be out of scope. As a native Hanzi, I will check other unverified news as well. This is not Wikinews.--Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 06:07, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

More unverified news
I am listing more unverified news that should be deleted as out of scope:
 * English-Hanzi/Ban on children's online junk food ads (2016-12-08)
 * English-Hanzi/Blasts kill many near Istanbul stadium
 * English-Hanzi/China considers to ban petrol and diesel cars
 * English-Hanzi/Chinese buy President Xi visit pub (2016-12-05)
 * English-Hanzi/Cuba signs internet deal with Google (2016-12-12)


 * News doesn't belong on Wikibooks, regardless of whether it's verified or not. (Nor could the Wikibooks administration afford to take on the burden of verifying news on top of what they do; speaking as a Wikinews reviewer, where we sag under that burden.)  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 02:03, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Does Wikinews accept verified early events to be written as news reports? If yes, I may want to join there as I cannot always catch up today's events, and some old news reports online are gone and accessible either by archive.org or no way. When reviewing the book, many are just simple facts that may likely be kept. Here are even more unverified news to likely delete:


 * English-Hanzi/Dementia rates 'higher near busy roads'
 * English-Hanzi/Doctors call for London diesel ban (2016-12-10)
 * English-Hanzi/Dozens dead in Nigeria suicide attack
 * English-Hanzi/Dozens killed in Mexico fireworks blast (2016-12-21)
 * English-Hanzi/Earth-like planets found--Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 05:09, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * n:Wikinews:Newsworthiness seems to exclude 8-day-old events, so I will not bother verifying unverified news to move to Wikinews. Am I correct?--Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 01:46, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You are correct. --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 02:30, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Deleted the above 10 pages while too old for Wikinews. Thanks, Pi zero. I will find more to list here.--Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 06:01, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

More unverified news: --Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 01:24, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * English-Hanzi/Egyptian police killed by Cairo bomb
 * English-Hanzi/India doctor to operate on '500kg' woman
 * English-Hanzi/IS claims Cairo cathedral attack
 * English-Hanzi/IS killed 18 Egypt policemen
 * English-Hanzi/IS retakes Syrian city of Palmyra
 * English-Hanzi/Lorry plows into Berlin festive market--Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 05:30, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
 * English-Hanzi/Migrants die in shipwrecks
 * English-Hanzi/Nigeria church collapse kills many
 * English-Hanzi/Panda dies at 38
 * English-Hanzi/Passenger accosts Ivanka Trump on flight
 * English-Hanzi/Record number of migrant deaths at sea
 * English-Hanzi/Russia bath lotion poisoning toll rises
 * English-Hanzi/Russia, China block UN vote on Aleppo
 * English-Hanzi/Russian ambassador shot dead in Turkey
 * English-Hanzi/Singapore first place in school rankings
 * English-Hanzi/Smoke detected before EgyptAir crash
 * English-Hanzi/Suicide attack kills 13 soldiers in Turkey

Discussion of English-Hanzi
This book is a series of English-Chinese materials for language learning, but not a book of food, how is your day, actions, etc.--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 03:22, 22 September 2017 (UTC)


 * So is this book a collection of statements? If so, then should there not be another book that teaches individual words and phrases? 03:30, 22 September 2017 (UTC)


 * This book contains a variety of materials used for language learning. It is better to have a method to search for related topics. As you are a software specialist, could you help create a method for searching related topics of this book?--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 04:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * What about Book search? JackPotte (discuss • contribs) 08:16, 22 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I thought we had an ongoing discussion about deleting this book, in which the primary issue was copyright; a legal issue, not to be dismissed lightly. I find, though, that as part of some bookkeeping tasks that tbh I failed to check as closely as I presumably should have, that discussion was closed &mdash; in a nothing-more-to-be-done sort of way &mdash; and archived (at Requests for deletion/English-Hanzi) despite what looks to me like a gradually forming consensus for deletion.  It looks as if the most recent votes were by me and User:Dan Polansky, both for deletion.  Did I misunderstand how all that ended?  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 14:01, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The original discussion should not have been closed. On a related note, I'm also not sure why non-admins have been closing RFD's and RFPs anyways as they generally should get reviewed by an admin before that process happens. --Az1568 (discuss • contribs) 18:50, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

You should delete the pages which are copyright violated, but should not to delete the whole book.--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 21:25, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * This was Efex3's response to copyright concerns in the previous discussion, as well. Dan Polansky's remarks there had already articulated the counterargument before the response.  The key phrase in Dan Polansky's remarks was:
 * While not every page in the category suffers from this problem, it seems to be best to deal with the pages on a summary level, seeing that the approach taken by the author was reckless toward copyright. This should be deleted ASAP.
 * --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 13:00, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The fact is that some of "copyright violated" examples are not true. Please see the previous discussion here--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 21:58, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
 * It is only a historical problem even though there is copyright problem in some pages.--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 14:13, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
 * We should act preemptively in regards to protecting the project from copyright infringement issues but on acting on our own guidance we should also refrain being too aggressive in our policing, and act only on what is a clear infringement resorting to more deep erasures if the copyright owner asks for a pull-down. There are logic reasons to act this way...  --Panic (discuss • contribs) 16:42, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
 * As a new administrator here, I plan to check the content to see which to keep or delete, but not to delete the whole book.--Jusjih (discuss • contribs) 05:40, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Recalling Dan Polansky's remark about "reckless toward copyright", and I'm not convinced the author suddenly knows better (the only example I recall was examined and found to have only made the problem worse), it doesn't seem to me that the Wikibooks adminsitration should be taking on the open-ended task of trying to apply the sort of copyright standards to all this material that the author has not been applying. --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 02:09, 23 January 2018 (UTC)


 * is this to be a phrasebook or sorts? Something like Omniglot, but for Mandarin phrases？If so, I can see the value of it. Artix Kreiger (discuss • contribs) 02:35, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Previous discussion of English-Hanzi
I am transcluding the last discussion here. 18:39, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I have removed the transclusion of Requests_for_deletion/English-Hanzi since that is very confusing. --Dan Polansky (discuss • contribs) 19:57, 27 October 2017 (UTC)
 * To remind, the previous discussion is at Requests for deletion/English-Hanzi. --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 13:06, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
 * *Please see the previous discussion here--Efex3 (discuss • contribs) 17:22, 30 October 2017 (UTC)