Wikibooks:Reading room/Proposals/2020/November

Repost: add features that support ebook writers better
I am reposting this proposal as the discussion got very long. It was to use Wikisource templating with:


 * optional narrow single column formats;
 * optional serif fonts for body text
 * Differing styles for headings and so on (not always underlines)
 * easy navigation bars (last page, next page)
 * optional export links to common ebook formats


 * s:Template:Default_layout » allows differing page layouts to be displayed by default;
 * s:Help:Layout » explains the layout system, which I don't understand behind the scenes however
 * s:Template:Larger » allows non-underlined headings of varying sizes
 * s:Template:Smaller » allows text of smaller sizes than body text
 * s:Template:Header » creates title display area with key info, plus navigation back / forward
 * s:la:Formula:Titulus » Creates a title area for a front page, also used by ebook exports for front page material AFAICT;
 * s:la:Formula:WSExport » Presents a series of export formats for a given book

I have added the details to:


 * User:JimKillock/Migrating ebook features

Where I will try to pull out the main points later.

I am very willing to have a go at some of this, if it is mostly migration of content as opposed to figuring out too much. With that in mind, I also had an idea to try this on Latin Wikibooks, as the content I want to create is mostly Latin-English texts. That could be simpler also as the project looks relatively undeveloped. JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 08:56, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I don't have access to the tools to import templates, etc. here on Wikibooks. I do support the idea of having better control of print-worthy copies of our material here but there's not a lot that I can do to actualize it. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 09:05, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I am not sure how Latin wikibooks works with admin requests, but I imagine that whoever has the admin rights would be ok with us running through what is required there, so long as whoever is implementing it has sufficient technical skill. Perhaps a few of us could be granted rights and run through the process to get more familiar with it? JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 10:23, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The situation at Latin wikibooks seems to be that there are currently no admins, so it is quite a moribund project. I can apply for adminship, but I wonder if this might be best done by someone here, or with somebody else's help? I will certainly need help to try all this out.  would either of you be willing to help me get this going? JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 19:54, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You may want to ask a steward (which I am not). —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:14, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, yes I can do that. Still it feels a bit wrong for me to take this on without help or admin experience. JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 21:43, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I was asked on la:Vicilibri:Porta_communis by UV whether asking Wikimedia to implement the Wikisource features as a MediaWiki Extension would make sense. Can you let me know your thoughts, and if it is worthwhile, perhaps we can raise it (in whatever the relevant forum is). JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 10:11, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I think that could make sense. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:40, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
 * So the advice so far from Wikisource is that the templates are easy enough, but what gets complicated are the multiple layouts, which are done via Javascripts. They say the way to implement this is via creating a "gadget" with the relevant scripts, pulled out of their existing JS and CSS. If that is right, then it ought to be fairly simple to implement on Wikibooks? As I mentioned with a bit of help I would be very willing to help trial this on la.wikibooks if that helps also. JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 13:51, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Gadgets are more complicated but I think that using la.wb as a kind of proving ground is a good strategy. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:02, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Further point: it has been pointed out to me by UV@la.wikibooks that if page layouts are editor chosen, then the whole JS issue goes away, and the pages layout changes can be applied via a template. if that is the case, then this should all be a lot simpler, ? JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 11:50, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
 * here is another use case for these features. Someone on this Wiki wants to annotate a Wikisource book, has copied it across to Economic Sophisms, porting the content, and thereby wants the templating features. JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 16:06, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

OK, now we are getting somewhere, albeit you may have a suggestion of a better way to do this. I have two templates, to open and close the divs which make the column, and a style sheet attached to the first.


 * la:Formula:NarrowColumn
 * la:Formula:NarrowColumn/Styles.css
 * la:Formula:NarrowColumnEnd
 * Demonstration at la:Usor:JimKillock/Formulae

The styles don't seem to be working out the serif fonts yet, but it is a while since I did CSS so I may be able to fix this.

The main question I have is: is there a better way to open and close the wrapper divs than using two separate templates, one to open them, and the other to close them? JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 15:05, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I have the narrow columns plus text size templates working at Economic Sophisms and also at la:Usor:JimKillock/Formulae. I'll enquire about using the ebook exports (WSExport) next.
 * I am not happy about using two templates, one to open divs at Template:NarrowColumn and the other at Template:NarrowColumnEnd to close them. Do either of you have a better way to do this? JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 18:36, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The only other approach that occurs to me atm is to have a single template call that takes as a parameter all the stuff that goes between the start and end of the div. That way, the simple template can generate start and end and all between.  The wiki syntax for that isn't wonderful, but then, the wiki syntax for using two separate templates was already not entirely pleasing either. --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 19:11, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks I have got that to work copying from another simple template. JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 20:23, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

You know what I just remembered: the Community Wishlist Survey 2021 recently opened. This is an opportunity for you to present an idea to the community to vote on the priorities of the developers. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:49, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Proposal to remove WSExport support for ebook export from Wikibooks
There is a ticket on Phabricator to remove Wikibooks ebook export from WSExport. I can see why this has been raised – most Wikibooks are probably not easily exported to ebooks and the formatting could work very badly in many cases. I've suggested that it may be better to enable (or disable) export per book, depending on whether the Wikibook is going to export well or not. But I though best to mention. JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 22:14, 27 November 2020 (UTC)