Wikibooks:Reading room/Archives/2013/March

HotCat
I am coming back to Wikibooks after a long absence and thought I'd start with categorizing some pages, but I was surprised to find HotCat isn't installed as a gadget. Is there any particular reason for this? Seems like it would be a good addition! -- Phoebe (discuss • contribs) 02:12, 1 March 2013 (UTC)


 * There is a particular reason. We don't use categories on a per-page basis.  We have primarily subject categories and book categories.  The main page of a book belongs to, typically, one or maybe two subject categories.  All the pages of the book belong to its book category.  Membership in these categories is accomplished using templates:  for the book's main page, subjects and status; for subpages of the book, BookCat.  --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 04:40, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I was going by the help out! page where categorizing all pages is listed as a to-do task. What you describe above is not obvious (and is kind of a convoluted way to get the same results as just categorizing pages), so the tasks page probably needs more explicit instructions. -- Phoebe (discuss • contribs) 07:56, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The templates accomplish far more than mere categorization, of course. Even status does a little more than categorize.  BookCat correctly recategorizes all the pages if a book is renamed.  But subjects leaves those relatively simple templates in the dust &mdash; for each subject it adds the book to, it also adds the book to shadow categories for all the ancestors of that subject.  That's why it's possible to list for each subject, and each book-completion level, a list of books actually in that subject, and separately a list of books in subsections of that subject.


 * You're quite right of course that if the administrative tasks page is misleading, we need to adjust it. --Pi zero (discuss • contribs) 13:04, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. (I just meant that if you don't look at the source, it's hard to tell that a category is template-generated rather than just being a category, since the page appearance is the same). I think just a little help text on the tasks page and a slightly more detailed explanation on the CCO page would do the trick for new contributors. Thanks for your explanations! -- Phoebe (discuss • contribs) 17:57, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
 * FWIW I have a bot that adds too all uncategorised pages. I ran it every 3 months or so to clean out the list QU TalkQu 00:17, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikisource discussion about annotated texts
Wikisource is currently having a discussion that may affect Wikibooks: Request for comment on annotations and derivative works. Wikisource does not actually have an agreed policy on annotated texts like Annotated texts and there is even disagreement about what counts as an annotation. Quite where Wikisource's scope ends and Wikibooks' scope begins is part of the debate. This may result in some import requests on Wikibooks. It may also result in Wikisource declaring this to be Wikibooks' problem and washing our hands of it. It's unlikely we would be quite that bad but, nevertheless, having some more Wikibookian points of view in the discussion might help. - AdamBMorgan (discuss • contribs) 21:21, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Featured Books PDF Redo
Hello, my name is Dirk, I made 80 PDF versions on the German Wikibooks, and 42 versions here. Up to now I tried to avoid replacing existing PDF versions. Now I am going to try to create new PDF versions of very many featured English Wikibooks and replace the existing PDF versions, with my ones. I am mainly writing this post to give you a change to complain. If you are otherwise happy with my work and would like to support me you can leave a note on: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/LaTeX_Export

Here are some examples of my work here so far:
 * File:BlenderDocumentation.pdf
 * File:Haskell.pdf
 * File:CPlusPlusProgramming.pdf

Yours --Dirk Hünniger (discuss • contribs) 17:14, 12 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi Dirk. Thanks for letting us know what you're doing.  The PDF versions look good but I'm curious why you are replacing PDF versions which already exist with new ones?  Is this because of changes since they were first made?  I don't have much experience with creating PDFs except Wikijunior Europe which is an enormous file and now out of date.  --ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_Estonia.svg|15px]]talk 21:25, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Im replacing partly because the wiki text changed significantly since the original pdf was made and partly because some pdf don't look good. I will cetainly look at all pdfs I am going to replace and take moderate decisions. --Dirk Hünniger (discuss • contribs) 06:17, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Convert complex templates to Lua to make them faster and more powerful
(Please consider translating this message for the benefit of your fellow Wikimedians)

Greetings. As you might have seen on the Wikimedia tech blog or the tech ambassadors list, a new functionality called "Lua" is being enabled on all Wikimedia sites today. Lua is a scripting language that enables you to write faster and more powerful MediaWiki templates.

If you have questions about how to convert existing templates to Lua (or how to create new ones), we'll be holding two support sessions on IRC next week: one on Wednesday (for Oceania, Asia & America) and one on Friday (for Europe, Africa & America); see IRC office hours for the details. If you can't make it, you can also get help at mw:Talk:Lua scripting.

If you'd like to learn about this kind of events earlier in advance, consider becoming a Tech ambassador by subscribing to the mailing list. You will also be able to help your fellow Wikimedians have a voice in technical discussions and be notified of important decisions.

Guillaume Paumier, via the Global message delivery system. 19:11, 13 March 2013 (UTC) (wrong page? You can fix it.)

Language-learning books
I would like to bring up for community discussion what can be done to improve the usefulness of the language-learning books on Wikibooks. They are exceedingly numerous, and yet, with few exceptions, they cannot help anyone to learn a language. The Spanish book, for example, reads pretty much exactly like a phrasebook, not a language learning tool. In fact, most of the language books do little more than act as phrasebooks. This is not how to teach a language. They are even less helpful then conventional textbooks, and conventional textbooks never help without a teacher. Working on the assumption that most WIkibooks are used by those learning without instruction from a teacher, I can see no use in modeling these language WIkibooks after conventional language textbooks. I do not have many suggestions to improve the situation, but I hope someone does. Wikibooks language teaching has great potential. Thoughts? Liam987 17:14, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I think sound and image files could aid people in language acquisition through audio and visual association. --dark lama  18:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * That would definitely be helpful. Any ideas on how that could be implemented? Liam987  18:45, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Maybe use infoboxes. Image of the word, followed by the word in English, followed by the word in the target language, followed by links to audio clips with pronunciation of the word. Maybe include quizzes to test people's ability to associate a picture/audio file with the correct word. Maybe dictionary style with the word broken up into its parts and an audio recording. --dark lama  19:29, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * To be useful all language books should include the following content:

I agree that the Spanish book is poor. Many years ago I started English for B2 Students which made an attempt to produce a better language course book but I didn't get very far with it. --ЗAНИA talk 20:16, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Structured lessons with a focus on vocabulary, grammar and some kind of reading or listening focus.
 * All lessons should include exercises to test students' understanding of what has been taught.
 * Each book should aim to teach one level rather than go from beginner to advanced in one book. Alternatively books which focus on specific purposes would be useful, e.g. Spanish for Business or Spanish for Retirement.
 * Language books should use IPA to teach pronunciation rather than some weird English approximations as seems common in many books. A link to an IPA book (or the Wikipedia article) from each book would help those in doubt.
 * The best books should ideally write EVERYTHING in the target language rather than try to teach using the English language - would this be permitted on English Wikibooks? All the best language text books only use the target language.
 * [www.livemocha.com Live Mocha] and the many Moodle-produced language tools are the best examples of how to teach languages and use a far wider range of exercises than we have here although Wiki software limits us too much.
 * I strongly agree with all these points, especially about writing only in the target language. Non-traditional methods of language learning are great, but how could they be incorporated into Wikibooks? (I am particularly fond of Rosetta Stone), could some of those ideas be incorporated?) Liam987  20:28, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * User:Liam987/Language photo example - Liam987  20:32, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

PDF Version Redo reaches 50%
My attempt to generate PDF versions of Wikibooks has made significant progress. More then 50% of the books with a PDF version on the english Wikibooks, have got a PDF Version created by MediaWiki to LaTeX. See list. I don't think I will do much more very soon. --Dirk Hünniger (discuss • contribs) 08:32, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Kindle problem
When I retrieve a Wikibook on Python programming on my Kindle e-reader, the displayed text is 90 degrees off the horizontal. When I rotate the device the text moves, again to 90 degrees off the horizontal. This is frustating and renders reading the Wikibook difficult. How does one correct this proble and achieve a landscape mode for the displayed text? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr6horse (discuss • contribs) 16:51, 2 March 2013
 * I'll try looking into this later, but I just wanted to say this first: We have yet another reason to support ePub and mobi. :P Kayau (talk · contribs) 15:33, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the looong wait. I'm not sure what you meant when you said rotating the device. If it's physically, it would definitely be weird if it rotated along. :O If you're using the option for rotating it (I recall there being one, though I can't find it any more), then maybe you could just rotate the book physically. The next page button would be at the bottom, but it still works quite well for me. Kayau (talk · contribs) 09:18, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Help
Hello…

Subject: Kindly I need some tips and help to start created my own Wikibook in the online version, Pdf version and the printed version.

Kindly I create and publish my own media files (Images) in Wikimedia commons that I owned there copy rights because they are my own work and I am the corresponding author to them. Also I should mention that Wikimedia editors group them for me under Category: Emad Kayyam work, also All my images and published work is dual licensing by

May you please let me know; first of all your point of view and then let me know what is the important templates that I should use and if possible give me some tips to start that if possible.

Kindly write on my talk page

Thank you mush

Emad Kayyam

--EMAD KAYYAM (discuss • contribs) 13:49, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Introducing myself and the Osmo Documentation project
Hi, I want to introduce myself and my interests in starting a new Wikibooks project, the Osmo Documentation book. I use personal information management software named Osmo and believe the program is important enough to warrant more public attention on its use. I have broad philosophical and educational interests in the wikimedia family of projects. I hope this narrow software documentation project will eventually be a small but good contribution to free-libre and open source communities. Please read more about my personal interest in this project on my user talk page. --Ellisun (discuss • contribs) 22:33, 29 March 2013 (UTC)