Wikibooks:Reading room/Archives/2011/August

Pagename and book title issues
All Wikibooks projects have by default have a Title/Root/Cover/Entry pages, this pages have a preeminent importance when they are the root of the path tree created by adopting the slash convention in names (to help navigation), esthetically there is an enormous variation as well as how readers are proposed to enter a work, it is also interesting that older works (pre-slash convention) tend to have a more clear cut entry page often constituted by a repetition of the page title (also the book title), an image and link to a second page holding the toc or a navigational scheme, this type of design has mostly been abandoned.

In any case there are two distinct issues, there is a duplication of information and a causal relation between the book title and the page title (Nikola Tesla, History of Apple Inc. etc...). The first is that books will for aesthetic reasons repeat the page title (as to permit it to be centered and made prominent to readers). The second is that the Wikimedia software forces to some degree the title page to be the same as the book title and it even presents a challenge when more extensive titles would be welcomed.

This structural limitations also create an issue with the use of slash convention with a depth greater that 3 (Ada Programming/Keywords/terminate) (note also that there is again a duplication of information since the navigational aid automatically created already provides path information).

So my view is that the Wikimedia software is by default imposing unnecessary constrains to editors that have an high impact on how users visualize, navigate and process the sometimes complex paths created by the slash convention.

The only solution that I'm aware is provided by the template  implemented using JavaScript (see MediaWiki:Common.js/Displaytitle.js) that permits to alter the page path field to something more useful. For instance I've started to make use of it to complement the slash convention navigational aid (Hypnosis/Chapters/Mind) and removing the unnecessary duplication. This can also permit use of more complex page titles and in general is a hack to solve some of the constrains the Wikimedia software imposes.

Recently I've also started to use it in the Title/Root/Cover/Entry pages to remove the already referred duplication of the title information and permit to center the title with the rest of the content on the page (sometimes images) or simply as a way to quickly visually inform the user that it it the Title/Root/Cover/Entry pages.

Some time after I started using it in this way on the cover of the works I actively edit, User:Thenub314 noted a visual corruption in the work Understanding Global Trade Policy to what I thought was due to the extension of the title, and so the template use was removed. A few days ago User:Ruakh reported a similar problem but this time with another title, that was less extensive. That resulted in us finding out that it was an issue that occurred at least with the use of the now default Vector skin (that I don't use).

For what I understand the Vector skin puts, in my view, an unnecessary focus on the page name information (if are using Vector see C++ Programming/Programming Languages/Paradigms) just looks weird and is irrelevant information, already present on the nav. aid, I think that in part it was attempting to address the issue with increasing prominence of the title, especially in Title/Root/Cover/Entry pages (comparing to older skins like the Classic). I fully understand that skins are personalized and I put format and structure at a lower priority than content, but consider that it is a valid consideration to make works appealing and ultimately usable. Of course there are a lot of divergent opinions on format and style, we even have people opposing the adoption of the slash convention, but ultimately it should be for those working on projects to define how they are presented.

I decided to make, this longer post in place of a request a technical/administrative aid, so that anyone still not aware of the possibilities, distinctiveness of the skins (especially when personalized) permit, and the problems that can arise from it. Also to expose some of less visible Wikimedia limitations and call attention to  possibilities in addressing some of them, especially when editors select book titles.

The request I make is if it is possible to fix the noted issue in regards to using  as I was using ((Hypnosis the only remaining active example) without it being cutoff when users see it in the now default skin (at least Vector, I've not tested the rest of the skins, I prefer the Classic with the right floating bar). Can this be classified as bug on the vector skin or is it a problem of the JavaScript? --Panic (discuss • contribs) 22:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


 * First off in every case you seem to be using the build in magic word DISPLAYTITLE and not the template/js hack. As for the solution, when you adjust the font-size, the line-height attribute needs to be adjusted as well because it inherits the old value which is too small for the now bigger text to fit in. --dark lama  17:19, 3 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 23:59, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Perbook css and firefox 5.0
Perbook css doesn't work in Firefox 5.0, but perbook javascript works. See Turkish/Pronunciation_and_Alphabet/Consonant_Classifications_and_Harmony, in this page tooltip for words and suffixes, which uses perbook javascript, works without any problems. But tables are not shown correctly as their style codes are stored in the perbook css page. I hope this gets fixed soon. Srhat (discuss • contribs) 15:28, 5 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I guess this could be a MediaWiki or Firefox issue. "Firefox is not loading my stylesheet" suggests maybe MediaWiki, while "Website not loading stylesheets correctly" suggests it could be a Firefox issue. Either way I think this isn't something that we can probably fix on our end. --dark lama  17:09, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Bottom Border of Table Sometimes Vanishes
Hi,

Can anybody please advise me why the bottom border of tables vanish at times, usually after scrolling. They then reappear so that the effect is intermittent. ??  See the tables on Freewheels_and_Cassettes. Thanks. Armchair (discuss • contribs) 11:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you referring to the tables inside the drop-box "Pitch for Rear Cog-sets and Predicted Shifts for Mixed Drive-gear" ?
 * If so here (FireFox 3.6.18) they show correctly, what is the vendor and version of your browser?
 * Or it can be an issue with the graphics card/driver etc...  --Panic (discuss • contribs) 15:27, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

It happened mostly with the table on the main page. I have been using Opera 11.50. I will check with Firefox. Thanks. Armchair (discuss • contribs) 16:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

CSS is not loaded on secure server
If I go to any page on secure server Google Chrome shows that the site is trying to load a lot of nonexistent CSS files: GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/Autocount.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/Hoverbox.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/Infobox.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/Mboxes.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/Multilingual.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/Media.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/Nav.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/toc.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/References.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/top.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found) GET https://secure.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Common.css/search.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css 404 (Not Found)

Could someone fix MediaWiki:Common.css by replacing the @import rules by the content of the CSS pages? This would make the CSS to be sent minified by ResourceLoader and also save 11 requests for all users! (compare with w:MediaWiki:Common.css) Helder 13:42, 9 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Looks like the developers broke relative URLs again. This looks like a mediawiki regression/bug again. AFAIK when it was working right, ResourceLoader was combining and minifying it all so 11 requests weren't needed. --dark lama  14:37, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok. I've reported it on Bug 30294. Helder 16:19, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Lakes
I want to start a wikibook on Lakes. How do i do this? Thank you. --Unknownrebel3 (discuss • contribs) 21:00, 11 August 2011 (UTC)


 * I will just post this, since I had to check it; the user was welcomed to Wikibooks by Pi zero, I presume his question was addressed by the info given...  --Panic (discuss • contribs) 00:36, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Template Importing
I was working on de-wikifying the page The History of the Native Peoples of the Americas/Mesoamerican Cultures/Aztecs when I stumbled across the broken Template:Infobox former country. I looked this template up on wikipedia, and decided that it would be a good template to keep in. How do I get this template imported, that is, do I just put in a request for import, or is there something special for templates?

Please respond on my talk page.


 * Template importing is done the same way as other imports. However, the import may not always be possible due to the complexity of "sub-templates" used by Wikipedia. For example, to import would require 10 - 100+ imports to make it work. QU TalkQu 16:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

mbox-side not right-aligned on Safari 5.1 on MacOS X 10.6.8
The subject says it: doesn't appear right-aligned in my (up-to-date) version of Safari on Mac OS X 10.6.8. Since mbox-side is used in lots of other templates, this is pretty important. --Martin Kraus (discuss • contribs) 21:56, 21 August 2011 (UTC)
 * While I might wonder if you're using the secure server and not getting CSS files as above, this template has the  defined right in it.  Can't really get any simpler than that and that's standard CSS.  So I'm at a loss. – Adrignola discuss 03:49, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes float is standard CSS. However the standard as I understand it does not require float to apply to tables, and web browsers compliant with the standard are free to render tables outside of any floating parent elements it might be in. If my understanding of the standard is correct no attempt should ever be made to float tables or to use tables inside floating elements if a consistent layout is desired across web browsers. --dark lama  13:12, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Just checked Safari on Windows: same problem. On both machines, Firefox doesn't show the problem. Maybe we should switch to the template (which is used by Wikipedia and works with Safari). --Martin Kraus (discuss • contribs) 14:12, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Some new templates I imported in the past already do use side box. (Technically sister, which uses side box.)  But when I had attempted to change them all over, I was told that the existing ones were lovingly crafted.  I would be in favor of changing, but I need some support behind me before I risk a repeat situation. – Adrignola discuss 17:12, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * You have my full support as long as the "lovingly crafted" templates are broken on Safari. :) --Martin Kraus (discuss • contribs) 17:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * uses a table too both at wikibooks and wikipedia. I am baffled why that one would render correctly and another table would not. Are you sure you don't mean which uses a div? --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;"><font color="midnightblue">dark  lama  14:09, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It's related to margins. Though it is floated right another piece of CSS resets the margins to "auto" which aligns it centrally, then a further styling sets the left margin to "10" - which forces it to the left. I've tweaked the box code to right align it properly. This was also broken in Chrome BTW. --ErrantX (discuss • contribs) 15:59, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Works with Safari on MacOS X. Thanks a lot. --Martin Kraus (discuss • contribs) 07:43, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello
I'm a parent of 3 children living in the state of Indiana. One of the unusual things about K-12 education in Indiana is that it is a textbook rental state. Every Indiana child has somebody cutting a check at the beginning of school for the cost of renting textbooks. My total was well over $450 this year. That's a fairly significant chunk of money. While researching issues surrounding a new 1to1 computer deployment proposal, I found out that Indiana textbook adoption is unusually local and has become more local just this year. I also found out that free textbooks are simply invisible to the Indiana textbook approval process. I aim to change that. Indiana parents, if they knew about free textbooks, would be unusually motivated to contribute to them because every textbook they convert over to a non-commercial book is a personal reduction of their yearly expenses. Nobody else is going to capture the savings. TMLutas (discuss • contribs) 00:53, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your message TMLutas. I wish you luck with viewing or editing books here at Wikibooks.  if you need any assistance send me a message or leave a message on this page. --ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_Italy.svg|15px]]talk 01:03, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Asking for a cover
Hi everyone. Two questions: 1. Is it okay to post questions on this page like this? This appears to be the place to do so. 2. I am looking for someone to create a simple cover for my book, if anyone feels so motivated. I would be ever grateful!!! Software Development with Continuous Integration

Thank you! mtr (discuss • contribs) 17:13, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Introduction, new book
Hi everyone. I just registered today and started by first book: Software Development with Continuous Integration. I know its a very specific subject, but any assistance with formatting, layout, citations, etc. is tremendously appreciated. I'm still in learning mode here. Also, I see that it is labeled with Quality:Minimal. How did this label get applied? mtr (discuss • contribs) 02:02, 28 August 2011 (UTC)


 * The "quality" flags are applied using the Revision Review (a.k.a. FlaggedRevs) function. We use "minimal" just to mean the page is free of vandalism. By default anonymous readers see the last flagged revision, so any vandalism can't be seen enabling us to present a "cleaner" Wikibook to the casual reader. Very occasionally higher level quality flags are applied (e.g., to Featured Books) but this is rare - nearly everything is rated minimal. For more detail see REVIEW. Thanks <font color="#E66C2C">QU <font color="#306754">TalkQu 10:19, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Did I do this right?
I am completely new to contributing here. I created Cookbook:Taco Casserole. I am not sure if I did it correctly. Joe Chill (discuss • contribs) 14:52, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It looks fine to me. Good categories.  Nice presentation.  I have added metric units.  --ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_Italy.svg|15px]]talk 15:13, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added it to the Cookbook:Beef and Cookbook:Mexican recipes pages so that it can be found easily.--ЗAНИA [[Image:Flag_of_Italy.svg|15px]]talk 15:17, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking it over. Joe Chill (discuss • contribs) 15:33, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Numbering Equations
I am having difficulty numbering my formulas. I would like the equation number to appear at the right hand side of the line and I would like to be able to reference it later on. I've tried:

$$\begin{equation}\label{eq:1}y=a_{0}+a_{1}x+a_{2}x^2+...\end{equation}$$ ,but that didn't work. It gives: $$\begin{equation}\label{eq:1}y=a_{0}+a_{1}x+a_{2}x^2+...\end{equation}$$

Any ideas? Perhaps the answer could be added to the "Formula" page found on "Help:Contents"

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Monsterman222 (discuss • contribs) 4:27, 29 August 2011 (UTC)


 * AFAIK there is no way to do this inside the formula. Since formulas are added inline, you can manually label and reference it. For example:


 * 1


 * --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;"><font color="midnightblue">dark lama  11:56, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Book on Yoga
Book on Yoga : I wish to contribute if there is any book on Yoga on wikibooks. I am not able to find it under any category. If there is no book available for this topic, I would want some guidance on how to start the book?

Indersinghal (discuss • contribs) 09:51, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Hello and welcome. On your talk page you'll find some helpful links on how to get started. To get a feel for Wikibooks, I suggest you take a look at one or more featured books to see how books are often structured here. There's no book on yoga, but there is a section in another book that could be lifted out to "seed" a yoga book if it would help. See here. If you have any questions, please let us all know here so we can help. Good luck and happy writing <font color="#E66C2C">QU <font color="#306754">TalkQu 12:37, 30 August 2011 (UTC)