Wikibooks:Reading room/Archives/2010/March

Creating pages in my Primer
I am continuing on in the project, making a seventh grade Chemistry book from the bones of the General Chemistry WikiBook. I am cutting and pasteing. This technique does not take the art with it, so I suppose if the art is available, I will have to cut and paste it through another technique. I'd love to know if there is a way to copy a page over with the art intact. Mike1722 (talk)


 * It's probably a bit more complicated than you hoped. see Help:Files for more details. Recent Runes (talk) 18:31, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the information, but I've requested deletion of the work. The amount of time spent on this learning curve didn't offset the quality of the product, or too moch time for too little output.Mike1722 (talk)

Chemistry
I am a seventh grade teacher who would like to severly, probably too strong a word but you get the drift, edit the General Chemistry textbook for my classroom use. I am not a writer. It is my hope to edit and use the book without causing any difficulty for the current book. I suppose you could consider my request, may I create a General Chemisty lite version for kids? How do I do this without harming the original?99.145.93.221 (talk) 20:31, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Before you do anything, check out Subject:Chemistry to see if we have anything like what you're looking for, and aimed at the middle school audience. If we have something, then you are free to edit it to your heart's content.  If we don't, then I suggest that you go ahead and start a new book, using General Chemistry as a starting point.  You would want to come up with a new title, perhaps suggesting the intended audience, as High School Chemistry does. --Jomegat (talk) 20:57, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, I get turned around by the magnitude of Wiki. Mike1722 (talk) 13:59, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I'm looking to join into the General Chemistry book myself, and I'd like to shape it as a college introductory text. From looking at the book I'm not entirely sure what level the book is targeted to and looking through the related changes for General Chemistry I was not able to find any active authors. What would be the best way to go about finding any other current authors and then form some idea of an intended audience? Btharper1221 (talk) 05:50, 11 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Post a message on the book's talk page, express your intentions for the book's evolution. You should also include a deadline for the conclusion of the proposals discussions with a minimum of 7 days, as to permit you to check if any opposition materializes to the proposed changes. At the same time if may you wish look into the edit history of the book and try to send using Wikibooks an email to the top editors calling attention to your post. This should bring any interested user into the discussion, if not, you can then implement your changes uncontested. --Panic (talk) 07:09, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Computing Books
Can I find computing books here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.157.12.229 (talk • contribs).
 * Yes. See Subject:Computing (which is linked to from the front page). --Jomegat (talk) 14:03, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Policy on links to software downloads
I saw a page suggesting the reader goes to another site to fetch Windows software to install on their PC. see Paint.NET/Contents/Tutorials/RoundGlassButtons Is there any policy on this kind of thing, like displaying a disclaimer? Recent Runes (talk) 18:08, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * A general disclaimer applies to all works on all wikimedia projects as I understand it. Other than that I am not aware of any policy requiring the use of disclaimers. I would probably double check to make sure the link in question is an official download source and fix the link if its not. --dark lama  20:07, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The link is to somebody's personal web site, which is also pointed to by the "official" Paint.NET forum, . Maybe that makes it OK. Recent Runes (talk) 23:26, 4 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you were right to question that though. I saw it and looked into it as well and decided it was probably benign, but who knows.  Either it's a very clever ploy, or it's a fairly unprofessional way to distribute code.  Why don't they put that up on SourceForge or something?  --Jomegat (talk) 04:39, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

CollabNovel
I just started a wiki project which is like wikibooks for fiction. (novels etc.) The project is very you and just set up. (rules pages, main page, specific editing guide, etc. have been created). Now I´m looking for everyone intrested in helping out, writing some content. Be bold, look around and start editing. CollabNovelFreddyE (talk) 07:16, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Bots for automatic vandalism reversion
On Wikipedia they have something called ClueBot to revert vandalism automatically, which seems to work quite well. There is less vandalism here but fewer admin staff too, so perhaps it would be worth a trial, if only to free people for more rewarding work. Recent Runes (talk) 19:01, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sure the bot has matured over time and I personally don't have any objections to seeing how well it would work. Looks like it checks for open proxies and puts warnings on the vandals' talk pages too.  However, the real question is whether the bot's operator would run it here.  -- Adrignola talk contribs 19:32, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I suppose the guy would need to adapt his bot programs to use the equivalent Wikibooks pages, but presumably that would be fairly easy. In case there are technical issues to resolve, it is probably best if you or another admin approach him if you think it is a good idea. I had a quick look at some changes the bot had made on Wikipedia and all the changes I saw were sensible except on one heavily vandalized page where it was not clear what the correct version should have been. Recent Runes (talk) 19:18, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Templates for playing speech recordings
At least 3 of the language books use a similar table template to play speech recordings, when you click on "audio" (French, Spanish & German). This takes you to a new screen with a sound-to-light show. I think it would be more useful to be able to stay on the original screen and read the text at the same time as listening to the recording.

The Listen template does something like this, but the icons and text layout are rather larger and do not fit into the tables so neatly. Would it be possible to combine the two templates so that the layout of the books is not significantly altered, but the audio can be played at the same time as reading the text? It's a bit too technical for me, so that's why I am asking here! Recent Runes (talk) 17:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess this issue is not really specific to Wikibooks, as Wikipedia and Wiktionary have similar templates with (IMO) similar room for improvement and perhaps more people available to spent time on it if they are interested. If I get any more joy over there, I'll announce further developments here. Recent Runes (talk) 16:48, 14 February 2010 (UTC)


 * I guess most readers just open the link in a new window with a right-click (but considering touch-based input devices this is something that probably should be avoided). Maybe the table template should be adjusted to include the play button (which can be configured to require less space, see here for examples). By the way, the Listen template has the problem that the built-in Firefox audio player ignores the horizontal HTML layout; thus, if it is used, there should be enough white space to the right of it. --Martin Kraus (talk) 10:24, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the help. The right clicking does work after a fashion, but as you say is not the ideal solution. I tried making a test template based the French_Table template, but so far have not achieved the compact layout I was aiming for as the audio player seems to be adding line-feeds to the layout. (see below)


 * rowspan="2" | singular||feminine||la||la fille||the daughter
 * masculine||le||le fils||the son. etc....
 * }
 * Recent Runes (talk) 22:42, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you should give the player its very own table cell. --Martin Kraus (talk) 07:07, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I think you should give the player its very own table cell. --Martin Kraus (talk) 07:07, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Naming new pages as far as "directories"
I am only working on Calculus and I see some pages named in one way and some named in different ways. For example, there is Calculus/Limits/An Introduction to Limits, which is under the Limits heading and also its page name has /Limits/ in it. But, Calculus/Finite Limits is also under the Limits heading and its page name does not contain /Limits/. Most pages in Calculus are named based on the second example but several are named the way of the first, though most of these are named Exercises and possibly it was done this way since there are several sections with the same name. However, it just seems unorganized to do some one way and some another. So, which one should it be in general? Thanks. NumberTheorist (talk) 15:53, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * This will heavily depend on the book. Consistency is key.  If pages have to be linked to by many others in the book, using a flat structure would make linking easier.  However, if there are a lot of pages in the book, you can have a shorter table of contents on the main page and tables of contents for each chapter in the book.  See Network Plus Certification or what I'm trying to do with Social and Cultural Foundations of American Education for an example. -- Adrignola talk contribs 16:29, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, well, there are a lot more important things for this book than renaming a whole bunch of stuff right now, so I'll just keep naming like most sections are already named, which would be like this Calculus/Finite Limits, without the extra /Limits. Thanks. NumberTheorist (talk) 17:36, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I noticed this inconsistency when I was doing some work recently. I didn't really touch it since I wasn't sure which I thought was a better way to organise the content. The benefit from these sub-pages is pretty much just the extra link below the page title (the top level heading). It helps with structuring the book, but isn't really all that useful given the decent navigation templates. In that case, keeping the structure flat is probably simplest and therefore best. I agree with NumberTheorist that there are other more important things to do right now, but I'll get around to it at some point unless I'm beaten to it. --Swift (talk) 11:19, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

File:Maleimides.GIF
I was looking up some images and came across the following link on Wiki Books. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Proteomics/Protein_-_Protein_Interactions/Cross-linking

Regarding the diagram on the maleimide reaction, I believe that there is an error. Looks like a copy / paste error from the NHS ester portion. I am uncertain how to edit the image.

Jhaa lives (talk) 21:26, 2 March 2010 (UTC)


 * If you view that image, you'll see a notice midway down the page that says it's hosted at Wikimedia Commons, our shared media repository for all Wikimedia websites including Wikipedia. If you click the link in that notice titled "make changes", you will be taken to a page where you can upload a new version of the file.  I will provide you with a direct link, however: commons:File:Maleimides.GIF.  -- Adrignola talk contribs 00:22, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Uploading images

 * I want to upload some images so as to add some more example problems in the wikibooks:statics part. Please help me how can I uload the images.Ganeshsashank (talk) 09:30, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Use Commons, after you have uploaded the images there you can use them here, it is transparent to the system. --Panic (talk) 10:57, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I would like to write a small Guide on how to live life as a good scout

Na'vi dictionary
Hi,

Na'vi/Na'vi-English dictionary exceeds the template include size. This is because each lexical entry is formatted with a template inherited from Wiktionary. As a dictionary, it isn't a good idea to split it up. Is there any way to fix/override the limit? —Kwami (talk) 20:19, 1 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know how to avoid the limit. Since the page is really long, I would suggest to split it up according to letters, i.e. one page per letter. Alternatively, you might simplify the templates (as far as I understand it, all the intermediate expansions count to the limit, even if they don't show up in the result). --Martin Kraus (talk) 00:22, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I can't see any good way to simplify the templates: they're pretty well designed.
 * They appear a bit overengineered to me: you are using only a fraction of the possibilities, right? One way of simplifying the templates might be to define a whole set of expanded versions of these templates (by using "subst"). And then defining expanded versions of the templates that you are using with the specific parameter values that you are using most often. I assume that this will reduce the size significantly. --Martin Kraus (talk) 10:23, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. The writer of the templates is taking another look. (The way they are makes it easier to make formatting changes, but hopefully they've stabilized.) The dict will probly be significantly expanded soon, but hopefully this will work. —Kwami (talk) 20:47, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Meanwhile, do you know how to suppress the TOC, so we don't have two? —Kwami (talk) 23:25, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


 * will hide the automatic TOC. You can find some more things at Meta:Help:Magic words that can provide other features. --Sigma 7 (talk) 23:54, 7 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks! —Kwami (talk) 08:58, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Now that I've broken up the dict, it's still too long for the Print version. (I can't even get it all the links in the Print page.) I thought I'd just have two Print volumes, the grammar and the dictionaries, but Template:Print version appears to not work properly. The book link no longer works, whereas the dictionary link points to the book. I can't see how I'm doing anything differently than what the template doc instructs.

(Actually, even w the dictionary separated, it's too long to print. But one problem at a time!) —Kwami (talk) 16:21, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I fixed the boxes. I think that if any parameter is specified, you'll have to provide the full path to the print version.  Additionally the documentation for that template may not be entirely correct.  We're going to have to break the dictionary down into multiple print versions or take a look at the templates used. -- Adrignola talk contribs 16:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I see one of my problems: if the print page is not yet created, the template redirects to the main book. I'm used to creating articles from red links. —Kwami (talk) 21:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Proposed new book:Pre-Han China
I've provided the outline of a proposed book here. Any comments?  Kayau  David Copperfield  MOBY DICK   the great gatsby  10:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It might be useful to have a description of the proposed scope and audience of the book. Then there would be something to judge the proposed structure against. Some of the link headings talking about "vicious hegemons" and "time for some hereditary monarchy" look a little opinionated or quirky, so you are wise to use more neutral text for the actual page names. People here are generally happy to help out with technical matters, but you would probably not get much help with the content itself as people are mostly busy with their own books. Recent Runes (talk) 12:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
 * If you click on the contents the page is different since I piped links.  Kayau  David Copperfield  MOBY DICK   the great gatsby  02:57, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Book of (the best) mathematical proofs
Hi all, a group of mathematicians (including me) would like to create a wikibook in where the famous proofs of mathematics are presented. I have two questions about it.

1) Despite the fact that in wikibooks, there are no pages like "Wikipedia:WikiProject Mathematics" or "Portal:Mathematics", we would like to create a Project Page in order to collect the members, organize the work and present the best selected wikibook-sections. Is there any possibility to create a portal-like (a quasi-portal) page in wikibooks?

2) Do we continue the wikibook Famous Theorems of Mathematics (in a higher level of organization)? Or, should we create a new one?

I'm happy to accent any help or proposals. Regards, Mozo (talk) 15:41, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * If you'd end up not using any of the existing content in Famous Theorems of Mathematics, you could start a new book and the edit history of the two could be combined if the new is superior. But you could certainly continue on that existing book, refactoring it as necessary if it will improve upon it in order to avoid duplicating content.  Keep in mind now merged. We do actually have Chess and WikiProject Bartending, amongst others.  You could create a project page in the Wikibooks namespace with wikiproject at the very top to organize the contributors. Welcome! -- Adrignola talk contribs 19:18, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you very much for your quick response. I'll talk to the others, and sooner or later we will start writing the book. On the other hand, it is a good news that we can create an own project page. Thanks a lot! Mozo (talk) 20:19, 18 March 2010 (UTC)