User talk:Xixtas/Archive2

Reply to post on consensus and my misinterpretation
If I misinterpreted you I'm very sorry and will correct or remove the text and make obvious my error, but when you wrote the reference to the IETF (and rough consensus) and finished by stating "This asserts the obligation of the minority to stand aside when discussion has been "full and fair" so that consensus can be effectively determined." on the same post you seemed to be defending that interpretation.

Under consensus no obligation is made to the minority, aside from the need to be willing to work on good faith and toward a common good, a block is a valid result if agreement is not reached (you clearly stated that you objected to a solution that would end in a block), so did I get it wrong or did you express it badly ?

As for defending the same thing that Whiteknight I also think you are not, I gave examples on the actions defended as valid by WK (some you even objected to), take for example the decission to end the arbitration (and only on the decission process), the discussion and the "consensus" obtained was performed and reached off Wikibooks, I was not blocked at the time and expressed my objection to that intention, the decission was taken in record time (I think any proposal must be stated, public knowledge and stand for at least 7 days to give a chance to get input from users, this is not written but I think you'd agree that making a decission in less time is not being open to input and opposition or even to compromise), as another example I gave my objection for a WB:RFA were my points were valid (they were even used several times later by WK to validate and oppose other users), and were summarily dismissed. If you indeed defend that kind of power of decission based on personal judgment and a disregard to opposition you are really sharing WK view and I made there a mistake of interpretation also, did I ?

Anyway I have restated and addressed rough consensus on the essay and the matter of erosion of the word consensus in deep, I remember you objecting to the validity of the argument of "erosion to the meaning of consensus", so if you feel that there are several levels of consensus what do you defend or view as the intention when it was selected as the basic model to perform decissions on Wikibooks ? --Panic 04:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I have not expressed support of any of those models. You asked "Can anyone provide a location to a paper/reference that considers the bypassing of a block as still be inside the consensual decission process ?!?" I provided three such examples. That is all. The meaning of the word consensus has not changed in the thirty years I've been using it. -- xixtas talk 05:02, 22 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok so can we agree then that I misunderstood you and you could have been more explicit on giving me examples and stating them as such ? I will now change or state a correction about my error.
 * But then since even if I extender a bit more (even using some of you words) was the point that you were attempting to pass, "I have read your essay and I disagree with it in fundamental ways.". I have not changes my position to what do you disagree with me about then ? --Panic 05:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Regarding the moving of your posts, I agree and respect your request, the other statements I made are still valid, just because I agree and respect you on it, I think making an obligation or a generalization may not be correct (you must take in consideration the argumentation used early by SB Jhonny on the matter of moving the posts), I don't share your opinion or even SB Jhonny that the posts I make are private or even exclusively directed to the user I'm addressing, they are public record and not a private conversation. I recognize the location, that is the implied wish to talk and address only me or others on that thread (but does one control the participation what would change if the thread is moved?). --Panic 04:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

btw can do you care to comment on the other post there...
I and WK were also discussing the guidelines and policies in regards to enforcement, he states my views as "unfounded notions" do you share his point of view on the subject or mine ? or do you even have a third way about it ? --Panic 05:32, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice Work
Nice work alphabetising the wikijunior bugs page. Urbane User  (Talk)   (Contributions)  08:13, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:consensus
I can't think of many people who have disagreed with the definition of "consensus" that i've been using. Some people did disagree that such a process was poor at making decisions, but nobody seemed to disagree about what it meant to achieve consensus. I agree that it likely is worth some serious discussion among wikibookians to iron out the finer points (considering that the decision making guideline has been official for some time now). Besides the occasional difficult user, I dont think there should be a problem in bringing this subject up. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 19:05, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

error?
Note: Votes for deletion -> VfD in Wikibooks talk:Decision making you mention a RfD to validate the point.

On another point you made changes to the guideline text calling it a policy, (I would and my work is on that direction), support a move to policy status but after some considerable changes.

Txs for the input on the essay, I have already answered you and made several changes (also included the unregistered users problem, as they shouldn't be discarded from the process), I'm still mining users talk pages and some policy discussion talks for more points that should be addressed. --Panic 05:10, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Decision making
Is there a reason you changed DM to use the word "policy" instead of "guideline" which it currently is? I noticed this and thought I would ask in case I missed something about this becoming policy. Thanks. -within focus 12:40, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I see Panic also mentioned this, so I guess I'll check his page for a response if you don't want to leave me one. -within focus 12:41, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Need some fixes
Do you mind fixing some problems for me?


 * 1) Move C++ Programming/TOC1 to C++ Programming leaving a redirect on TOC1 to C++ Programming/TOC1. (it may involve deletion of C++ Programming try to see if a merge of history is needed or possible)
 * 2) Move C++ Programming/Contents to C++ Programming/TOC2 (can delete C++ Programming/Contents after]]. (it may involve deletion of C++ Programming/TOC2 try to see if a merge of history is needed or possible)
 * 3) Rename C++ Programming/TOC2/Print Version to C++ Programming/TOC2/Print version or C++ Programming/TOC1/Print version to C++ Programming/TOC2/Print version (I prefer Print version, most books use version in place of Version, I'll fix the links after, just leave me a post)

For now it is all. Txs. --Panic 01:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I have placed a request for clarification on User_talk:Robert_Horning on a problem with one of those pages (and informed him of the request here) there is no problem if the links change as I have all C++ Programming pages under watch so I will correct any links that become invalid. --Panic 01:27, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

A merge is still pending as stated on this discussion, the author and the C++ accepted the merge idea some ages ago but it was never performed can you see about it (not urgent), move to C++ Programming/Exercise Book (it is a C+ Exercise Book, I will then credit the original work and merge it on the TOC hope no much moving around will be needed), C++ Exercises for beginners is the original location of the book. --Panic 05:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've taken care of 2 and 3. I don't remember why I moved it to Contents to be honest and the Print Version must of been a typo. I disagree with the first one though and believe it needs discussion and consensus. Other people working on the book seemed to like the page that was C++ Programming at the time I did it, before you moved it yesterday. --dark [[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]] lama 15:32, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

remembering you...
A merge is still pending as stated on this discussion, the author and the C++ accepted the merge idea some ages ago but it was never performed can you see about it (not urgent). Can you take care of merge of the exercise book, I'm working with the examples and have already started some minor work toward adding exercises to each chapter... Txs ... --Panic 03:03, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

On a very specific topic :)
What do you dislike on the TOC1 ?(I was not the only editor of it). Is it because of to much text (that can't be avoided as some info needs to be given about the content at least until it is further segmented, a work in progress), I have made some redesigns and reduced the size of the the text of the descriptions did it improved or made it worse ? --Panic 02:53, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Affirmations
I will
 * not use sockpuppets in an editing dispute or to circumvent a block.
 * assume good faith, and believe without proof that other Wikibookians are trying to help the project, not hurt it.
 * collaborate with other Wikibookians even in cases where I disagree with them.
 * allow others to be bold.
 * treat all Wikibookians with respect and civility.
 * not attempt to deceive other Wikibookians.
 * limit my reverts to cases of outright vandalism and will try to fix any errors I find through iterative changes.
 * try in good faith to work on a community version of the modules I am editing and not create new modules to circumvent the need for collaboration.
 * agree to these things of my free will irregardless of whether previous actions done to me were justified or unjustified.

-- xixtas talk 01:15, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Ratings disaster
See http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/WB:SLC#Ratings_disaster.21.21 RobinH 11:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Rob and Johnny
I just wanted to make a few comments here to try and explain some things. First, we do have a proposal for an WB:RFC policy, and it is under the auspices of that proposal that Johnny created that sandbox page in his user space. Second, RFCs about user conduct are not uncommon on other projects, such as wikipedia. I am certainly not advocating that we become entirely like wikipedia, but there are certainly some aspects (but not all aspects) of that project that I think we could benefit from emulation. The only reason why an RFC about Rob is considered to be so offensive is because we have never had an RFC mechanism here. On wikipedia where it is more common, RFCs about a particular user are not considered to be such a terrible thing (and can often serve as a good forum to air issues which are worthy of discussion but which dont belong anywhere else). Third, Rob is certainly not a complete innocent in these matters, and it might be worthwhile for people to talk about him in a constructive way (and with Rob's explicit input to the process) instead of the occasional angry complaints that get posted on IRC or sent via email. I dont think anybody is interested in mudslinging, but there are issues that some people around here would like to discuss before things get more ugly. Not discussing problems constructively, and letting personal disputes fester in silence is part of the reason for some of our problems around here, I think.

That's just my two cents, for what little they are worth. I dont expect this to influence your decision on WB:RFA, but i do hope that it assuages some of your fears. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 16:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Smug admins
G'day Xixtas, you ask "Would you care to elaborate? Who is being smug about his or her title?"

Sorry, but I won't bite. There is enough character assassination going around on this project without me dropping my AU$0.02 in as well. My point on RfA was that some here seem to view the acquisition of useful tools as a means to gain status, whereas it is actually a means to provide more help to people (and in fact comes with a responsibility).

Besides, I don't have the time to get involved in the petty squabbling that others here seem to revel in. Webaware talk 00:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I posted my interpretation of those comments, and I think it serves as a bit of clarification. Reading what webaware said, i dont think he was accusing anybody of being smug. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:10, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry to intrude, but I agree with Webaware on his assertion, I have found on my talks with some administrators that not all take as the same what constitutes a raise in responsibility or the need to grant users special rights to perform special tasks, some view it as a simple vote of non objection, some as a vote of trust and some even as an motive of honor or a raise in status in the community, I personally have shifted the way I voted in the past (based only on non objection) to a include the level of trust and in that way cover all the way people see the action of granting more rights to users, since it is true that with the right comes also more power (it shouldn't be so but it is).
 * My memory is not exact but up till today I only voted against the majority in 3 occasions (change vote once, was "ignored in another" and the third is still be running and I was expecting to be the sole opposition and also to be ignored, but the statement needed to remain in record), and I actively avoid or see as irrelevant votes of support (but they may be needed due to how the process is run).
 * I think for what I have read that you Webaware and Xixtas don't defend that status or ranking should be a result of the granting of rights, and the recent posts are just misunderstanding, for what I've read Webaware was not making any implication on you Xistas but stating the same understanding that I also have. If I'm in error I would like to know your position since it may be important in future discussions especially on policy that further advance the "power" or the creation of differentiations on rights of users solely based on the access they have to tools. Txs and again sorry to intrude, feel free to ignore or delete my post (I'm monitoring this page so you can reply here). --Panic 00:23, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

There is ample empirical evidence that the actions and words of admins and bureaucrats of this project have a huge influence on the culture of this project. Whether this should be true or not is immaterial. I choose to live in the real world. A world where community recognition, enhanced privileges and increased responsibility garner additional respect. With recognition comes the responsibility of leadership. Part of being a responsible leader is putting aside your personal feelings in favor of the advancement of group goals. If this is being "smug about a title", then I am guilty as charged. -- xixtas talk 03:14, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * G'day Xixtas, you seem to be reading my comments as some sort of personal attack. It isn't. Perhaps you need to switch brands of tin-foil, or put it shiny-side out, because it isn't working - you're still paranoid. My comments were totally regarding the exact problem you raise, which is that some people seem to think that tools = status, when in fact tools = work. If others prefer to wear their tools as badges, I have no qualms with that, but I don't see SB_Johnny as doing so as he appears to be too busy using the tools. If you think that I'm talking about you when I say that, then please feel free to add another layer of tin-foil. cheers, Webaware talk 03:44, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think that SB Jhonny is pretentious (claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, the problem I see is different and is stated on the new RFC page he created recently), I haven't watched him acting in that way or making any comment that would enforce that view (and be sure that I have taken a close look at it), and I disagree with Xixtas (if I got it right) that being granted rights is a reason to claim responsibility of or a leadership role on the community, to me is just the giving of tools to perform tasks for the community (and extras responsibility for those tasks) but as an equal to all other Wikibookians, if not then to me it is a lack of being self aware and analysis of events and facts (the simple number of users versus administrators or even very active Wikibookians doesn't support that logic). The same as to anyone stating that they have a personal relation to how the community feels, but I make a destination on claiming those things and be seen by others as such, I have no problem on any Wikibookian demonstrating or giving any type of accolades to another Wikibookian or be a target for recognition of good work or deeds, the problem is the target user getting to much full of himself or too deep into the role to a point that he may lose touch with reality and claim to himself the responsibility and to be superior in his views for the community evolution. (please don't read more than I have written on this lines, no implications can be extracted is just shows my view on the topic in generic terms)
 * I relate leadership more to merit in actions and behavior in what it deals with Wikibooks, not on access to special rights with the exception of Jimbo... --Panic 04:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I expect people who are granted additional privileges to recognize that they will be seen as leaders and to therefore act positively in all ways, not just in the application of those specific tools. That is not to say that everyone has to stand up and beat the drum, or start big projects, or even that they must help other users. Just that they think about their actions in a larger context of what is good for Wikibooks and make a good-faith effort to act accordingly. -- xixtas talk 04:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Agree 100%, with more intervention or decission rights, actions and behaviors should be given even more thought, this is clearly stated on most policies guidelines (or in existing drafts) that deals with the use of the extra tools, this is especially important on a structure like a Wiki were social relations do form outside or in parallel to the main core goal of the project. --Panic 04:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * There is ample empirical evidence that the actions and words of admins and bureaucrats of this project have a huge influence on the culture of this project.

I would disagree with the cause and effect here. I think that many of the people who are admins and bureaucrats have become such because they are hugely influential to this project. When I nominated you for adminship, Xixtas, I did it because you were a huge influence and a major helper here. Being made into an admin doesnt make people more influential, it tends to make the influential people rise up and be more helpful. Either way the net effect is the same: admins are typically good and helpful, it doesnt much matter whether the chicken or the egg came first. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 13:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior Bugs/Harvestman (Daddy Longlegs)
I dont know if you keep track of CommonsTicker, but an image from this page has been nominated for deletion on commons because it isn't properly tagged. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 22:24, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Policies and guidelines/Vote/Blocking policy
Whoa now, besides the "clear the page" comment the things I said are not directed at you personally. I guess you thought they were since you're the lowest comment on the page, but they are applicable to everyone on the page (and I don't see your "obvious" reason either). I apologize if you're offended, but this "make it a problem when it's time to get things done" mentality here has become too much for me lately. This policy has been sitting for months and I really thought it was no problem. Instead, we're debating how a few words are used (yes, it makes things mean something different, but it can be changed easily) or a whole bunch of other minutiae. I'm giving up on it and it can go back to the design phase like you suggest, but I'm thinking it will just sit there for a few more months and nothing will happen. Please prove me wrong. The policy is fine to me as-is and there's nothing stopping us from modifying it in the future, already approved. -within focus 12:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior templates
I tried to throw some images together for those wikijunior templates, i knew you would come along and do a better job. i was about to send you a message about it, but it looks like you've already solved the problem. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

More Wikijunior image deletions.
The images and  have both been deleted from commons. These images were used in Wikijunior Big Cats/Leopard and Wikijunior Big Cats/Clouded leopard respectively. I'm going to try and find some replacement images, but please double check my work. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:10, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm watching the commons ticker entries every day, so i'll just clean up the messes when they pop up. If i put up a really lousy replacement image, you can feel free to correct it. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 13:45, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

you're a visionary
I'm liking your handling of the wikijunior "referendum", and in your methods i am hoping we can find some answers to some of our reoccuring problems. abolishing the word "vote" is an excellent start, and by a simple change in vocabulary, even if we dont change the method one bit, i think people will feel less on-edge. The continuum of options is superior, i think, to the black and white "yes", "no" or "comment" options that people have had previously.

I'm watching this very closely, but i think there is already alot we can learn as a community from this. --Whiteknight (talk) 02:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * PS two more things. First, i have a bot that can distribute messages to people automatically, that could probably save alot of effort if you want to send out mass invitations to people. It's a done deal now, but next time i can save alot of work. Second, we could advertise the wikijunior vote on the watchlists, or on the site notice or something, if you want better coverage. Since you are in charge of this operation, i'll let you decide what kinds of coverage to give it. --Whiteknight (talk) 02:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair enough. It feels less like work if you are having fun. Bots can't make fun, but they can help remove some genuine work. When you have some genuine work to do, you know how to reach me. --Whiteknight (talk) 02:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:A little help
What do you need help with, exactly? I didn't see anything in that log page that looked too bad or anything, maybe I wasnt looking at the right thing? --Whiteknight (talk) 17:09, 22 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, i see the problem now. If the other user won't discuss the issue with you, we can't just let him make changes to the page. People who refuse to collaborate are particuarly dangerous (in my eyes, anyway), and we can't allow that to happen. I have protected the page in question, posted a notice about the protection on the page, and sent a message to that user to let him know what is going on. If he does not start a constructive dialog with you, he can't be allowed to continue editing that page.
 * BTW, you could edit that page as well, since you are an admin, but please refrain from making changes (except for minor edits of spelling, etc) until we get this sorted out. Let me know if you need anything else. --Whiteknight (talk) 19:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

You're right, i unprotected the page now. I thought I had set a 1 week expiry on the protection, but i guess i didnt. It's done now, the problem appears to have cleared itself up, thanks for being patient! --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 02:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Glossaries
Thanks much for your thoughts on glossaries. I've been doing a little work on the Human Body wikijunior book (some already posted, more in process and to be posted soon). I'll try to do some "sandbox" work on a glossary suggestion and will send it your way for input. Kfasimpaur 20:11, 29 May 2007 (UTC) talk
 * OK. Here are some very rough thoughts on glossary implementation. Again, I'm new here, so let me know if this doesn't make sense, isn't in the right format, etc. If we can get some consensus on the purpose, etc., I'll do some work on the actual implementation (both in terms of technical implementation and going back and doing some back-work on creating glossaries for existing books). Kfasimpaur 00:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC) talk
 * Thanks for the response. Yes, that is exactly what I envisioned as well. I'll pursue what would be necessary to do this from a technical standpoint. In the meantime, would it be appropriate to post this glossary idea somewhere for other comments from the group? I don't know the protocol here, but I'd like to move ahead with something. I can also mock up one of the Human Body sections I've done to demonstrate how this would work. Kfasimpaur 22:58, 31 May 2007 (UTC) talk
 * Thanks for your input. I'll just go ahead. I'm not thin skinned. I'm just trying to learn the protocol here. I'll be bolder and will wait to hear if anyone has a fit. Hope I'm not driving you crazy in the meantime. You seem to be one of the few people active in wikijunior. Kfasimpaur 00:30, 1 June 2007 (UTC) Kfasimpaur

Colors Book
I'm glad you support my suggestion for the new "colors" book. Of course, it looks like you support most of the books. Darklama had this idea about using a graphical interface as a TOC for a book about learning to use Wikibooks. I thought to myself "We could use a picture of a rainbow, and kids could click on the rainbow to get information about the colors!" I looked and looked but couldn't find a good picture of a rainbow, and was definately too lazy to make one myself. I created the template on my user page that you probably saw after that, and even though it isn't a rainbow, i think it looks pretty good.

Anyway, I think it would be a simple enough idea to put together. I don't want to create a wikijunior book in a "bad way" or anything, but I would really like to put this project together sometime soon. What do you think about it? --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 03:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I only support the ideas that I think would make good books that I'm willing to put effort into. (Which is many of those suggested.) But I like this one, it's up my alley. -- xixtas talk 05:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Video versions of books
I made a Video version of the Wikijunior Animal Alphabet book - Download - that I thought you might like to see. I posted this on the Wikijunior Other Books page. I don't know if it makes sense to put it there. I don't see any precedent for video versions of books, but it seems to make sense for the stuff aimed at really small kids. The ogg conversion of this has some artifacts in it, but this looks/sounds really nice on an mp3 player. Kfasimpaur 23:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC) talk
 * Glad you liked it. :) I'm working on some ebook versions for some of the schools I work with too. It's fun to have good source material like this to work with. Kfasimpaur 02:59, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior:Learn to Read
had this idea this morning out of nowhere. What would it take for us to create a book that can teach a child to read, perhaps without help from a parent? We would need massive amounts of multimedia: images, animations (for verbs), sound files, etc. We could have a visual image-based TOC, so that children could get started without any help at all. The first few chapters would just associate words with pictures and sound files, and additional chapters would start to peice those elements together into sentences. Every word (or nearly every word) could be linked to a sound file of a person saying that word, so at any time a child could click on any word to hear it spoken.

Anyway, this is just a brief brainstorm. what do you think about it? would it even be possible? --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 12:53, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it is a big project, one that i'm hesitant to even prototype. It is, however, the kind of thing that I think we could drum up some support for. If we could get the wiktionary people to donate the sound files, and we could get the commons people to rummage up some images. We could do a full-on collaboration with wikiversity because this would be a "learning project", and definitely would push the boundaries of what the mediawiki is capable of. For some of the things, like the sound files, we might even need to get some developer support. Beyond that, if we mentioned it in a public forum, we might be able to attract attention (and maybe even some funding) from the WMF as well. You're right, we need some time to think about it because it is very ambitious. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 02:09, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Muggles' Guide to Harry Potter/All pages
Thanks for this page. Could you tell me where "Philosophy of Harry Potter" came from though? Thanks. -within focus 21:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I still don't see how it could link to anything since the page doesn't exist. It's not even spelled correctly ... -within focus 15:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Booya. Thanks. -within focus 22:11, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

World of Work
I like the World of Work idea. The format is especially accessible for younger kids. One of the big concerns I have with Wikijunior is that a lot of the stuff included is at way too high of a reading and concept level for kids. Your World of Work format is good because it sets the right level of text and presentation. I also like the questions as a way of encouraging visual literacy and critical thinking.

I did have a question about how the jobs tie into the countries they are paired with. Some of the examples seem well matched; others I wasn't sure about (like a zookeeper in Kenya...I'm probably sensitive to this one because I used to live in East Africa). I like the global connection because I think it will make kids think about other places and also is validating for kids who live around the world. (So much internet content is US- or Europe-centric.) It will be good though to try to show occupations that are representative ("typical") of the area portrayed. Hopefully having input from others will be helpful with this.

(On a related note, I'd like to see more people contributing to Wikijunior. I just returned from presenting at a national conference on educational computing. I shared several Open Source educational resources, including Wikijunior books, as a part of a presentation I did there. I am increasingly becoming an advocate for this kind of thing. I'm working on a workshop for teachers to show them how to edit and contribute, hoping that spreading the word will get a bigger community of folks collaborating.)

Kfasimpaur 23:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC) talk


 * I appreciate your comments. I'll try to post some of my own pictures from Africa in the next few weeks. It's been something I've been meaning to do anyway. I'm hoping to start a Wikijunior book on Africa soon as well. (I too think I'm going to pass on working on WWII.) I will continue to work on getting more people involved in Wikibooks.


 * Kfasimpaur 00:41, 2 July 2007 (UTC) talk

Wikijunior Book of The Quarter, Third Quarter
Hi xixtas,

What is the policy for declaring the book of the quarter. The voting time for the 3rd quarter has elapsed and the winner needs to be declared. How do we go about doing this? If I have counted correctly the World War 2 book has the most votes. However, may i just say, User:Professor Davies's vote looks a bit peculiar. His only contribution on Wikibooks is this single vote? Not saying that he is in anyway a puppet but it does look a little unusual.

Thanks in advance, Urbane  (Talk)   (Contributions)  12:46, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Some new images
Hi, there. I finally got some Africa images scanned (this was before I was using a digital camera...ugh) and up in Wikimedia for your consideration for the World of Work book. Here are links to them.

I also got the Animal Alphabet video converted for various formats (iPod, etc. It is here. (Check out the comment.:) Kfasimpaur 23:38, 12 July 2007 (UTC) talk

Ollivander
Hah, nice catch! I haven't finished the book yet and just wanted to add some text where I reverted a bad edit. Didn't know you were a fan ... -within focus 01:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC)


 * We have a graduated reader system for the Muggles' Guide that should protect beginner readers, and intermediate readers are generally expected to have read all the books. However, now that all seven books are out, we might be tweaking the system to protect from some overly informative sections and pages. -<font color="#000000">within <font color="#7A7A7A">focus 12:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Muggles' Guide
Well, from the UK versions of books 6 and 7 i think i have a rule: proper nouns ending in "s" will get another one after the apostrophe for their possessive form, but common nouns won't. I didn't manage to find any counter-example for this, but still a question remains on what should be done here on wikibooks about the issue... -- Jokes Free4Me 15:48, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Note: I had a small revelation about this subject. You can read about it at WithinFocus's talk page. -- Jokes Free4Me 17:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior images
G'day Xixtas, I was going to email you but you haven't registered and email account here.

The CommonsTicker has advised that two images used by WikiJunior have been deleted. I'm not sure what they looked like, so figured it was best left to you to replace them. Webaware talk 23:42, 14 August 2007 (UTC) (please reply here, not on my talk page)


 * G'day, another one, this time on Wikijunior:Languages/Esperanto. I've replaced with another image, but if it isn't suitable, maybe you can find one that is here. Webaware talk 07:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior:Colors
I started this book, i guess i'm a radical! I've added a few more images and some new formatting, but now i need to go back and fix the things i broke. I've done red, orange, and blue so far. Let me know what you think about it. Feel free to fix/change anything. One day when I have kids of my own I am looking forward to sitting down with them and reading this book together. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 00:26, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yay! Positive Feedback! I can definitely try to add more colors. It's mostly a matter of fixing up the templates and finding pictures on commons. Pink and brown are excellent colors (the colors my fiance has chosen for our wedding, no less). --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 02:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problems
Thanks for uploading image(s) to Wikibooks. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about what Wikibooks includes because of copyright law, and requires that we maintain a strict copyright policy. Some or all of your uploaded files may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and status. The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Please take the time to read Media to learn more about what copyright information is required to satisfy our requirements and remember to include this important information for every file that you upload in the future as well. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me, or ask another Wikibookian at the help desk.

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 * This is an automated message. Please ignore it if you've already provided license information for all your uploads.

It's been awhile
I've finally started the big task of sorting through and scanning some of the negatives from my time in Africa. Some of the "world of work" images I posted previously are up now in hi res. Here are links to them. What isn't up yet should be in the next week or so.

Going through all these photos is inspiring me to start on a new Wikijunior book on life in Africa.

Kfasimpaur 23:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC) talk


 * Thanks for the feedback. Funny you mentioned counting; I was thinking about a "Numbers and Shapes" book. (I'm working on some content for this for a project for work and thought I might include some of it here.) I really like the new Young Readers section of Wikijunior. World of Work has gotten me thinking about some wikibooks that use simple language to present higher level concepts. They could be for older kids or even adults.
 * Kfasimpaur 17:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC) talk

Wikijunior:Visual Math
I love it already! count me in, let me know what you need. I'm not great with graphics, but I can search commons like a bandit. Get a little bit of structure there, and I'll advertise it on my blog too. Maybe we can interest some commons artists into contributing images. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 00:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)


 * It's okay, not in any hurry! I posted a message about it in my blog. Havent gotten any response yet, but hopefully it will come eventually. I've been browsing commons looking for images we can steal borrow. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 02:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you know that the work you are doing is absolutely fabulous. Sorry i'm not helping out, i've turned out to be more busy then I expected to be this week. havent heard back from anybody on commons or anywhere, I may need to do some more campaigning. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 02:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Please review if you have the inclination...
The VfD voting and conclusion as delete doesn't seem fair to the work taking into account all the comments and the removal of the copyvio tag... [Morality/Murder]. --Panic 21:51, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Kids dictionary
Thanks for the interest in the kids simple dictionary project. I met with a group of teachers this week who were very interesting in doing this. We're going to meet again in late Nov.

I have debated whether Wikibooks is the best platform for this, because I want to include some version control and permit forking. However, I think it's a great way to give Wikibooks a higher profile in K-12, because I know a lot of teachers who will pitch in on this one. After talking to a few others, I'm thinking now of doing it on Wikibooks and then slurping the content down to a version control system here when we're ready to freeze a version and compile various offline versions. (I know the idea of "freezing" wiki content is not always viewed positively, but one of the main goals here is to have something grade-level appropriate and with absolutely no objectionable content, and I won't be able to review all the changes myself more than a couple times a year.) Of course, the wiki version can continue to be changed online regardless.

If we go forward in Wikibooks, I'll probably need some help figuring out how to set up the initial structure. Right now I'm working on a template and finding a good public domain dictionary to start with. Kfasimpaur 00:46, 13 October 2007 (UTC) talk

Wikijunior Idea
I had a bit of a thought earlier: what if we try to push forward with that old publishing idea? Trying something like that would definitely bring a little bit of controversy, which means more attention to the project. If we do manage to get some books published, we might even be able to get some stories on wikinews or other news venues. Attracting more readers through an effort like this will undoubtably bring more contributors too.

Other then that idea, just let me know what you think needs to be done to fix this crisis, and I'll do whatever I can to help. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 13:50, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've gone over the page-counter logs, and it seems that Wikijunior:Human Body, Wikijunior:Animal Alphabet and Wikijunior:Big Cats are getting the most hits. Maybe we should focus our attention for the time being on these books and try and put them into the spotlight? --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 13:54, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Take a rest if you need it (I need one soon myself), but make sure you come back! Without you, Wikijunior will really be in trouble! I've got a lot of school work this week, so I wont be able to do much about this myself, but I'll try to do a little bit each day. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 11:50, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Great Work
I really love the work you've been doing on WikiJunior, keep it up!

Wikijunior help is on the way! (Hopefully)
Well, since I am a young contributor (not telling age) here, I suppose I could be useful for Wikijunior projects. It would be very interesting to do because I have never made any large contributions on any of the established wikis before. So if you have any questions about this, just tell me on my talk page!

P.S. Can you give me the link to the WikiBooks list of odd contributions?

Wikijunior Redo
I really like your new design on the Wikijunior pages. It looks very nice. I've gotten a few comments on my post to the mailing list, people seem generally positive about creating a separate wikijunior.org website to host read-only copies. People also seem pretty supportive of publishing books through Lulu, or getting the books loaded onto the OLPC (although we would need to provide cleaned-up versions of the books, probably in PDF format).

Also, I wanted to make sure you saw the new page at Wikijunior/Logo. You of all people need your input to be heard at that page. I want to hold the Wikijunior and Wikibooks logo discussions simultaneously, if possible. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 03:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior:Kings and Queens of England
First off, that was an excellent email you sent to the foundation. I sent a slightly more aggressive follow-up discussing some of the less positive historical developments.

Second, you've seen my blog, if you are interested in writing about wikijunior, I could add you to it as an author (you would need a google account). Or, similarly, I could start a new Wikijunior-specific blog for including information just about Wikijunior. Let me know if you are interested.

Anyway, to the point of this message, I think that the kings and queens book really isn't age-appropriate in any way. The language and the writing style is dense, dry, and academic. Besides the use of portrait pictures, there is nothing about this that would be appealing to children. Do you think that this could be improved and re-focused at children, or do you think we could move it out of wikijunior? My fear is that when contributors see a book like this, they will become discouraged with the entire project.

Let me know about these things. I'll talk to you. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 13:22, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Image:Human Physiology Cover Thumb.png
Not sure if this makes a difference... I noticed that is PD, so I think that means the cropped version is too. Either that, or you get to decide how you want to license it (which I assume isn't retaining all rights and using it as fair use here). You may want to change the license tag on the cropped version. – <font color="Indigo">Mike.lifeguard  &#124; <font color="Indigo">talk 01:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior wish list
I was talking to someone today about various ways to make OER wikis more inviting to educators to contribute to. One of the ideas we had was to make a "wish list" of small approachable tasks that newcomers could do. This is sort of like the idea of Wikijunior's featured collaborations, but at an even more basic level. For example, the list might include things like "edit article on the brain in The Human Body" or "find an open-licensed picture of a moth for the Bugs book." I know that the "pictures wanted" list in Wikipedia was one of the things that got me involved there. Is there anything like that for Wikijunior (or Wikibooks)?

Also, if you haven't looked lately, the WikiJunion Animal Alphabet video is over 2500 views on Teacher Tube now. Very cool. Kfasimpaur 02:19, 13 November 2007 (UTC) talk


 * If you can put into place the structure for a wish list, I'll gladly help populate it.
 * Kfasimpaur 20:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC) talk

Idea for a new Wikijunior book
How 'bout a book on water safety? I can try to put something together if you'll give some guidance. I'll be looking through some of the other wikijunior books for ideas about target audience, organization etc. – <font color="Indigo">Mike.lifeguard  &#124; <font color="Indigo">talk 05:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior:Animal alphabet
Hi! I'm trying to do a translation of this book - for polish native children and got question about which font were used your pictures? MonteChristof (talk) 16:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Image:Wikijunior Animal Alphabet.jpg
Hello. Can you give sources for images used in this cover image? Thanks. --Derbeth talk 21:54, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:Respond Favor and Template:Respond Favour
Hi Xixtas, I've come across these two, both of which you created. Perhaps one should redirect to the other. (please respond here rather than on my talk page) --Swift (talk) 17:49, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Source
Hello

Can I have a source for these files please ? I vould transfer it to commons
 * file:Bus Porter Guatemala (Poldavo Alex - Flickr).jpg
 * File:Teacher china (peiqianlong - flickr).jpg
 * File:Field Worker Thailand (ryanwh - flickr).jpg
 * file:Waitress USA (Chuckp - Flickr).jpg
 * *file:Archaeologist Slovakia (meneldur-Juraj Kubica - flickr).jpg

Thanks --Garfieldairlines (talk) 17:15, 2 April 2009 (UTC)