User talk:Paddu

Greetings Paddu, and welcome to Wikibooks. You can visit Textbook planning and the first few sections of the Staff lounge, to get a sense of how books are built. You are also welcome to leave questions for me on my talk page. Sj 23:00, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)

*grave voice* There's something important I'de like to talk to you about. Have a seat.

You recently added all the "unsung heroes" to the list of wikibookians? This appears to be a mistake. Specifically, they are no longer unsung.

We take mistakes very seriously here at... Wikibooks, you understand that? You clearly ought to have written "unsung" and then immediately have edited the page to remove the "unsung".

Those who make mistakea, as you have, are traditionally forced to sit and eat... pear soup. Have fun. I will be back soon to make sure you finish your bowl, and be sure not to wander out into the rest of Wikibooks! I am Watching you. r3m0t (cont) (talk) 06:23, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * I don't know about pear soup, but eating is something I really hate. I'm already forced to eat daily (if not by my mom, by the urge to survive until I could contribute more to the 'pedia and the 'books). Couldn't you have thought of some less cruel punishment? Boo, hoo! :-( -- Paddu 14:16, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * ...I have tangerine soup. It's being voted at the moment whether it should be an official punishment, but... fine. r3m0t (cont) (talk) 19:55, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC) PS You're very lucky. There is in fact a rule saying that after lodging an informal appeal you may edit, but that is an archaic law spanning 4 centuries. Smart-ass.the


 * I hope User:80.185.161.162 got the same punishment for this. I strongly believe in equality, esp. w.r.t. punishments. -- Paddu 22:12, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * As strange as is the case mostly in meat-space, I had to get rid of my punishment so I could repent for my sins & undo the damage. -- Paddu 22:20, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * PS: Yes, I'm a smart-ass. See how I got a time-independent link to my "undoing", without a "diff=0" that'd change when the current version changes?

Paddu: for what reason do you ask me to wait before editing the C++ wikibook? (Also, feel free to contact me via e-mail; jdennett@ should reach me.

I'm completely lost too. An internal fork is wholly undesirable, and it just makes a mess of the contributions. What I would do (I doubt this would carry water, given the circumstances) would be basically to start over, possibly moving the stuff we have currently to talk or subpages and reconstructing the book with structure in mind, since everything appears to be a bit of an amorphous mess. I'll be somewhat busy until the end of the week, but I can try and help out after this if need be. Dysprosia 05:40, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

C++ copyright issues
If there are sections of Wikipedia articles in that page, and no credit is given, then yes, those are copyright violations. I'm not familiar with the book, or the subject, really, so if you can document a few sections of the article that are copied from Wikipedia, that'd be good. Gentgeen 21:58, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Moved from Panic's talkpage...
OK, now that you've read all my messages here, please look at the replies in Talk:Programming:C plus plus if you've not already done so & if you care for my opinion. Thanks! -- Paddu 16:09, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

We are talking books (not articles or encyclopedic descriptions), there can and I hope there will be many more books about C++ and there may already exist other books on the same subject on wikibooks, I do agree that forking was not good but as you requested me to leave and you were first contributing to it, I did respect your creative control, (I really don't have the time to continue arguing with you on every point) you argue more on mood points that you do contribute any content, I have now stopped contributing (directly to C Plus Plus) your are free to revert it to my first contribution as was indicated on the talk page if you wish... --Panic 22:38, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * No creative control, or whatever is tolerated here. Everyone is allowed to edit everything. I didn't ask you to leave. You could either impose your ideas elsewhere or use wikibooks as per the wiki way, so you've a choice. You shouldn't impose your ideas on wikibooks. Note that I'm more worried about your spoiling talk pages and making my comments & suggestions less visible than yours, than about your forking and other alterations to the article. The article would survive much longer than your wikilife so I don't bother about it (for now at least), but your removal/relocation of my comments affects the reachability of my ideas. -- Paddu 07:43, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

C++
Hi Paddu, I moved the C++ page because -/- is not + sign. Notice there's a module "Visual C (plus plus)". I think it's logical to follow such convention, when a symbol can't be used then sound out the symbol. -- [[User:Mkn|Mkn (Talk)]] 11:54, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * There's a Programming:C plus plus for a long time now. This one is just a "rival" fork started by User:Panic2k4. Ideally we ought to consolidate everything into one page & then delete other forks. But until then having more pages is counter-productive. -- Paddu 12:00, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * I see your point. I hope an admin will be able to merge the pages and delete any duplicates. I know this has been mentioned but please think of a way to divide the main page into chapters in separate pages. If your team can come up with a chapters structure, then the book will be more functional. The main page is overcluttered. Thanks -- [[User:Mkn|Mkn (Talk)]] 13:01, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Yeah of course I meant to say page/group of pages. I'm in favour of multiple-pages. But when talking about forks I tend to call the group of pages a page. I hope I haven't made this mistake in many places, or people might think I'm in favour of single page! -- Paddu 14:30, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)


 * Hmm, my fault for not sticking to the topic of the "Talk page" issue. On that issue, there shouldn't be a replicated talk page on another module page. -- [[User:Mkn|Mkn (Talk)]] 15:24, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi Paddu, I'm just letting you know before I save the edit for "C plus plus" page that I'm trying out the convention used by Lucid Dreaming where it lists the contents of module pages like the Table of Contents you'd find in a book. The purpose of this is also to try and get Panic2k4 to see that dividing the main page into separate pages is aesthetically pleasing, unburdens the page size and load time, and that it's possible to display everything on the main page (contents listing not actual contents) -- [[User:Mkn|Mkn (Talk)]] 22:39, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

NOTE
Ive replied--Panic 19:04, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC) Ive replied--Panic 23:46, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)--Panic 19:04, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Are you sure? C++ could use the help
You wrote elsewhere "I don't think I can find enough time and patience to work on the C++ wikibook," and I have to respect that decision (after all, I've walked away once, and nearly twice). However: some of us would appreciate your help if you have nay time, even if it's only to offer opinions or edit things you dislike rather than contributing significant new material. I don't know for how long I'll have time to contribute to the C++ Programming book again, but for now I have time, and I'm feeling optimistic that we can make it a good deal better in a relatively short period of time. It's your call, nobody's under any obligation to help here, but some people are more useful than others. -- James Dennett 08:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I replied to invitations to come back posted at w:User talk:Paddu at User talk:SB_Johnny. If you'd like my opinions on specific issues, you can point me to those and I'll be glad to help.
 * One opinion I would like to offer is that I think we should start with C++-style arrays/lists using STL classes and talk about C-style arrays and pointers at a later "advanced" stage of the book (I'm not sure how that is arranged now). I also noticed that in the TOC, unions appear before classes, whereas I'd consider unions too as an "advanced" topic since initially while learning classes, etc. one shouldn't be worried about memory layout, etc.
 * Thanks! -- 18:35, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Fair enough; I agree that I'd like to present C++ in more of a "top-down" approach, and have discussed this with User::Darklama. This includes, for example, presenting RAII and the standard containers classes in the memory management chapter before giving details of new/delete/malloc/free etc, and preferring to use std::string before talking about raw arrays.  There are concerns that it's a lot of work to adjust material and presentation order to suit that, but frankly I'm prepared to put in work if we can make a good, top-down book, but not much if it's going to be a traditional bottom-up, "C++ as C with extras" text.  (You might note that there are two TOCs now, linking to the same underlying material; a kind of mini-fork of contents tables, which hopefully might be resolved eventually.)  Anyway, thanks for your response. -- James Dennett 19:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I've replied to your note on my talk page; I agree on preferring to make namespace use more explicit. -- James Dennett 20:49, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Issues
It has been 2 years, so your issues with copyright violations may have resolved itself, through many changed. C++ Programming/Authors acknowledges that some work was taken from Wikipedia and other sources. As far as Ownership issues are concerned there is attempt to address that issue now. I've added a section to What is Wikibooks/Unstable about ownership if you wish to read it and provide constructive critisism on it. Failing that there is also text that appears below the edit box when editing a page that has been present for a long time:

Please note that all contributions to Wikibooks are considered to be released under the GNU Free Documentation Licence (see Wikibooks:Copyrights for details). If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here. You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION!

Any other issues, you wish to discuss? --dark lama  21:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

/comments_on_Panic2k4
On User:Paddu/comments on Panic2k4 I notice your talking about mapping between old names and to their new name. I'm not sure what your asking be done. Are you asking that links in the archives be updated to reflect their current page names? The page that you mention was deleted could be merged into the current Variables page and thus restore your contributions and everyone else who contributed to that page before it was copied pasted. Which I think would be the right thing to do. What do you think about that? --dark lama  22:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it will be necessary for you to leave Wikibooks again. While Panic may make threats, I would point out that is one of the problems that other people are having with him as well, not just you. I think its pretty safe to say his threats are empty threats and any attempt on his part to carry out his threats and control the situation will only reafferm what people have been saying. I would like to suggest you not let his words effect what you do and just focus on what you came here to do. Personally I think his behavior even within this process can and perhaps should be used as additional examples of his dealings with other people if not already noticed by the person responsible for making the decision.--dark lama  21:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I would also urge you to consider not leaving Wikibooks. Panic threatened to make the page messy; if he does, like darklama said, it will confirm at least some of the accusations that people have made. I think it was highly inappropriate of him to make vague threats on that page. Your help on the C++ Wikibooks is valuable &mdash; User:Iamunknown 01:40, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Page restored
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/C%2B%2B_Programming/Variables_and_Expressions

-- SB_Johnny | talk 00:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikibooks talk:Arbitration/Panic2k4 vs. SBJohnny/Plaintiff Charges
I would like to ask you politely to perhaps move that portion of what you wrote to the main "project" side of this page instead. You brought up several key points that certainly have expressed some concerns and problems in your dealing with Panic, and I think it is reasonable to make them a part of this record.

As far as Panic's remarks, go ahead and cull them from your remarks as they were really more objections about the process you used than anything directly said. --Rob Horning 11:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Sitting on Recent Changes
I guess my comment would be that you should remove anything you do not approve of that is yours. If I can help let me know - regards -- Herby talk thyme 08:39, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Forking proposal
I noticed you had taken part in the policy discussion about forking, and wonder if you might weigh in at Forking proposal, which is about the technical side of making good forks. -- SB_Johnny | talk 13:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Arbitration Decision
I have stepped in to deliver a decision for the arbitration which I believe has gone on long enough. Please see my decision page and write on my talk page if you have a response. Thanks. -within focus 23:02, 31 January 2007 (UTC)