User talk:Owain.davies

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And a big thanks for contributing to First Aid. Great work! If you're looking for more, take a look at First Aid/What needs to be done? Thanks again! -Mike.lifeguard 06:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Check for Underlying Causes on First Aid/Vitals
I moved that section to First Aid/Head-to-toe, but I'm wondering if it fits at all - it's certainly beyond SFA, and seems more like something that might be expected of a first responder or paramedic - definitely not a first aider. It might have a place in the First Aid/Advanced Topics chapter, as "extended/advanced secondary assessment" or something, but I thought I'd ask what you thought before moving it again or deleting it. Mike.lifeguard 17:04, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


 * How does this look? -Mike.lifeguard 01:32, 5 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The head-to-toe part of a secondary takes a while when done properly, and the stuff you added is really just advanced things to look for during a head-to-toe. So advanced, that I moved it to First Aid/Extended Assessment. Which I'm going to add some additional spinal-injury assessment stuff to. Seeing as you're a paramedic(?) you should proof that once I get it up. – Mike.lifeguard | talk 02:33, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I reverted some of your changes to First Aid/B for Breathing
I made some big changes to First Aid/B for Breathing because what you had added was (so far as I'm aware) wrong. Correct procedures are found here: 

As well, I've requested an attempt at consensus here on the victim/patient/casualty terminology issue.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 00:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * So apparently the UK didn't go along with ILCOR. The point of this text is that it's international in nature - the main protocols should be from ILCOR, and the ones you sent to me (btw do you have a link so everyone else can see that pdf?) should be included as regional differences. Feel free to make a separate section for them, or use . Note that those standards come from the Red Cross and SJA of the UK only.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 00:58, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, although ILCOR do endorse my position on the use of 'D for defibrillation' under basic life support, so if we accept the initial rescue breaths, then we must change D to 'D for defibrillation'. Sound fair? Owain.davies 18:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The endorsement is "Use of AEDs by trained lay and professional responders is recommended..." (emphasis mine). AED training is not part of CPR training - it is often an add-on, and is certainly something a lay rescuer can do, but is still part of advanced training, and should stay there. As I said elsewhere, getting an AED is covered under Ambulance (which won't exist until we restructure this chapter to match First Aid/CPR summary. AED use requires additional training, and is therefore located in the correct spot already.
 * As well, for obstructed airway procedures, it could certainly be integrated into CPR, but there are differences. After an unsuccessful attempt at ventilation, the rescuer readjusts the head-tilt chin-lift and reattempts. If the second attempt is unsuccessful, then the rescuer proceeds to 30 compressions followed by a foreign body check (visually check the airway and remove any obvious obstructions). If you want to merge it into First Aid/C for Compressions then go ahead, but make sure the sequence is correct. ✅  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 02:43, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Airway is not a vital sign - it's part of the ABCs, which are an even higher priority. You're correct to emphasize keeping an open airway, but putting that in vitals is really a demotion which is inappropriate. If you want to re-emphasize checking ABCs continually along with vitals (which don't include airway) then that would be appropriate in the intro of First Aid/Vitals.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 20:59, 13 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Even the European Resuscitation Council (which is responsible for the protocols you cited that EMS comes after checking breathing and didn't use ILCOR's standards) agrees that BLS doesn't include AED: "Basic life support (BLS) refers to maintaining airway patency and supporting breathing and the circulation, without the use of equipment other than a protective device." I think it's clear that we need to make sure the book is clear that AED/AED-trained responder needs to be summoned along with EMS and that AED takes priority over CPR, but AED use is going to stay in First Aid/Advanced Topics.
 * As well, seeing as how ILCOR, AHA, LSS, SJAC and CRC (at a minimum) agree that ambulance comes before airway, I'll change it back to what I had and insert a that it's different in Europe.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 00:40, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Please make sure that the regional notes I have are correct; as you know I'm not intimately familiar with ERC's protocols.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 02:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Please see my replies to your comments here and here.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 01:59, 17 July 2007 (UTC)