User talk:Az2008

Welcome message
Hello, and welcome to Wikibooks!

Here are some tips to help you get started:
 * To learn the wiki-markup-language syntax, see Help:Editing.
 * Make sure to sign your posts and comments with four tildes, like this: &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126;
 * There is a box at the top of the edit window (if javascript is enabled on your browser) that will insert it too (looks like part of a signature). This will let others know who left it, and make it easy to reply back to you.
 * Remember to conduct any editing experiments in the sandbox.
 * You can tell the community something about yourself in your userpage.
 * You can get to this page by clicking the tab at the top of the page labeled with your registered username.
 * Wikibooks is a collection of open-source textbooks. (What is Wikibooks).
 * If you are a Wikipedian, see Wikibooks for Wikipedians for a primer on how things work here (it's a little different).
 * If you want to base your work here on materials from Wikipedia, please use WB:RFI (requests for importation) to bring the material over in compliance with the GFDL.
 * If you're an instructor and plan on using Wikibooks for a class project, see Guidelines for class projects
 * Please say hello at the Reading Room with any questions or ideas.
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Help us by participating in policy and guideline creation.
 * Please take a look at Naming policy before starting a new book.
 * Remember to maintain a Neutral point of view.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and have fun!

You will find more resources in Community Portal. If you want to ask a question, visit the Study help desk, the Reading Room, IRC channel or ask me personally on my talk page. For site news, see the Bulletin board. It might be a good idea to add that page to your "watchlist" so that you can see when any new information is posted there. You can do that by clicking the tab labeled "watch" at the top of the page.

Good luck! --Panic (talk) 19:54, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Email
You can set an email in Special:Preferences so people can email you via the wiki. This doesn't reveal your email address to them (only replying to their email will do so). You may prefer to do that over having your email in an image (which, btw, isn't spamproof) &mdash; Mike.lifeguard &#124; talk 05:12, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

MagicJack
Due to your post on Reading room/General I got to examine your book project. Did you read What is Wikibooks ? I know that you are still working on the project but due to how it is structured and the content now available, it only seems to be attempting to fit the definition of manual, but without no real information on how to operate, the hardware or software, this is worrying, at least to me and so I call your attention to the fact, mostly because of the for profit nature of the content, since the project doesn't have any instructional information except for the MagicJack/Support Resources/FAQ an in off site resources, those don't make a Wikibook. I also got a bit worried by the use in MagicJack/Benefits and Criticism/Benefits of the "This page attempts to comply with WikiBooks Neutral Point of View policy." box, I haven't seen any comparatives with similar services, the use of compatible hardware that could indicate a NPOV (similar services are mentioned but in an unrelated fashion), this is further aggravated by marketing phrases like "an incredibly inexpensive telephone service." (it could by another qualifiers but without no valid context it is just a sales pitch, and the author's opinion). I don't have nothing against Wikibooks about profitable entities or their products if they really provide useful content under the GFDL... That said I hope you continue to add material but focus more on the instructional aspect of it. --Panic (talk) 08:28, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the time you spent visiting the book, and providing your feedback. I will try to improve the book. Just a few specific replies:
 * I didn't think anyone could confuse this book with a sales pitch. The "criticism" page is far from that. I could introduce you to some MJ fanatics who would assert that page is trying to "destroy" the company. (smile).
 * Regarding an instruction manual, MJ is kind of unique. The instruction manual is just "plug it in, make a call, talk as long as you want." The brevity of information provided to customers is why customers spend so much time trying to help each other, and why I thought a "book" would be a good place to aggregate this kind of "user guide" information.
 * On a related note: The references to content stored elsewhere was just my way to bootstrap the book's structure quickly and announce it to other MJ users so they could begin participating. I do plan to pull that content into actual pages within the book.
 * The emphasis on NPOV is due to the fact that there are very strong, polarized opinions among MJ users. There are many who can't tolerate even the smallest criticism of the company or service. And others who believe it's the work of the devil. MJ is unique compared to other services because it really is a "disruptive technology." It's "game changing" in the VOIP industry. Because of that, there are users who are infatuated with it, and believe any criticism is harmful to this world-changing product. And, others who think it's all a scam, and it can't possibly remain in business due to various factors. It's not mild dissension like you find among Microsoft Word users.
 * I really struggled with the Benefits/Criticisms area. I was worried that the moment I announced the book an edit war would break out. That's why I made NPOV so pronounced just for that pros/cons subsection. Not to imply that the entire book claims exceptional devotion to NPOV. Only that sub-topic, which is known to touch nerves with both sides.
 * Think about it as two levels of NPOV. One level would be to strive for NPOV among competing services (even if it's just mentioning they exist, which is a good suggestion you made.). The second level is NPOV among users of this one service. The latter is what I focused on. It may sound strange. But, MJ is unique this way. There are advocates who, at the mention of any criticism begin "bearing their testimony" like it's a religion to them.
 * I even struggled with the naming. I initially called it "Praises and Criticism" because I thought it might get too far into cheerleading, not an objective examination of benefits. But, I was worried the partisans would complain that "Praises" is pejorative, unlike the clinical sound of "Criticisms." Then I considered calling it "Praises and Gripes."
 * Maybe I should have gone that way. I thought "Gripes" devalued the legitimacy of the criticism so it would be clear(er) that it is a sub-area for two polarized "camps" to express their views. It's a difficult topic because I want to help prevent it from degenerating into everyone voicing their passionate opinion (love it, hate it). I want to keep it generalized of the opinions that exist.
 * Maybe it should be called "Common points found in user reviews." Then it would be clear that it's not supposed to be for every person to voice their own review. But, an objective summation of what commonly appears in reviews. And, it wouldn't be confused with what should be a fair representation of its features (compared to other services).
 * You might say this sub-topic doesn't belong in a book. But, it really is part of the MJ experience/culture. There are very strong opinions about how people save a ton of money with such a simple device. And, strong opinions of disappointment. It's really not an unrelated topic. And, it's related to how readers would compare it to other services. I.e., the criticisms would be of interest to users of other services.
 * === Closing ===
 * I have announced the book to the larger user community. I'm hoping more will get involved. I hope you'll give it a chance to see what it becomes. I understand your concerns about it being just an advertisement. Or, a table of contents for off-site resources. Or, a user-group site (not really a book.). I want to to do the right thing as a "book." But, a book geared toward users of the subject of the book. So, it's a fine line I'll try to be aware of. The "game-changing" nature of the subject of the book, along with the passions of its users make it more challenging than most topics.
 * Thanks. --Az2008 (talk) 17:04, 30 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Ok, thanks for the explanations. As for any extremists users, they would find it hard to participate on Wikibooks so even if you have to consider that they exist and they can have a negative impact on your time and patience (as to deal with such situations) they shouldn't be the audience you ought to be catering to, if you keep the middle ground you will aggravate each side equally...
 * As for the page name, I would have solved you conundrum by naming it pros and cons, this seems to be easy to understand and not subject to any assumptions.
 * On the subject of the book, as it is, it will, sooner or later be a target of a VFD (vote for deletion) on the grounds I pointed out to you, if you wish you can move the two above posts to the book talk page so any other Wikibookian can see that you will be addressing the problems and they can consider the time factors involved, so they give your project time to evolve. But without changes the mercantilistic aspect of the work will probably seal it's future on Wikibooks. --Panic (talk) 20:02, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. We'll see what we can do. I've started looking at inexpensive Mediawiki hosting options. Maybe that will be the best route. (I just had someone named "swift" delete a link from one of the pages with no explanation. I'm not getting a warm feeling at the moment.). --Az2008 (talk) 01:12, 31 December 2008 (UTC)