User talk:Athrash

= Quotes =


 * An utterly ignorant or utterly lazy man, if possesed of a little ingenuity, can with the help of a dictionary and grammar give a word-for-word rendering, whether intelligible or not, and print 'Translation' on his title-page. On the other hand it is a melancholy spectacle to see men of high ability and undoubted scholarship toil and struggle at translation under a needless restriction to literality, as in intellectual handcuffs and fetters, when they might with advantage snap the bonds and fling them away ... &mdash; Preface, First Edition, July 1902: N.T. in Modern Speech by R.F. Weymouth.


 * More than any book in the New Testament this [Gospel of John] calls aloud for isolated study, that by candid, fearless, and reverent thinking its secret may stand disclosed. &mdash; Introduction, First American Edition, 1943: N.T. in Modern Speech by R.F. Weymouth; revised, J.A. Robertson.


 * He whose will and desire in conversation is to establish his own opinion, even though what he says is true, should recognize that he is sick with the devil's disease. And if he behaves like this only in conversation with his equals, then perhaps the rebuke of his superiors may heal him. But if he acts in this way even with those who are greater and wiser than he, then his malady is humanly incurable. &mdash; The Ladder of Divine Ascent by Saint John Climacus Step 4, paragraph 48.


 * We desire that books be looked after most carefully as the continual food of our souls, and that they be written [fieri] with the utmost diligence, so that we may preach the Word of God by the work of our hands, since we cannot do so with our mouths. &mdash; Guigo, Prior of Grande Chartreuse in Carthusian Consuetudines. (1127)


 * We think we know what a verse says because we have read it or heard it so many times. Then when we find it quoted in a book, we skim over it and miss the full meaning. Therefore I have deliberately used paraphrases in order to help you see God's truth in new, fresh ways. English-speaking people should thank God that we have so many different versions to use for devotional reading. Also, since the verse divisions and number were not included in the Bible until 1560 A.D., I haven't always quoted the entire verse, but rather focused on the phrase that was appropriate. My model for this is Jesus and how he and the apostles quoted the Old Testament. They often just quoted a phrase to make a point.. &mdash; The Purpose Driven Life, by Rick Warren, Zondervan: 2002, pg. 325.


 * It would be true to character if Pope Benedict were to invest all his zeal in the effort to recast the concept of the divine incarnation in a new language, which would once again render it understandable to modern-day theologians, teachers and intellectuals. &mdash; Pope Without A Country, 4-30-05: New York Times Online.


 * In the absence of clearly-defined goals, we become strangely loyal to performing daily trivia until ultimately we become enslaved by it. &mdash; Robert Heinlein

= About Me =

Welcome, I arrived on my birthday, April 5, this being the 63rd recurrence. My primary concern is the Modernity Version of the New Testament, secondarily, the definition of omnificence, who, what and wherefore that unique word, and thirdly, could expand on Pharmacognosy. A vision from God appeared in my rain soaked study Bible in 1991. On the quoted Ladder of Divine Ascent, it must rank as a 10. I would consider myself eligible to moderate a spiritual Wikipedia project.

= Project =

We, the Wikipedia/WikiChristian Bible people translate/paraphrase the N.T. within the Weymouth tradition. I set the rules with the first two chapters of the Gospel of John and we see what develops as each verse starting with John 2:23 is up for edit. Unlock the secret, possibly, reverent thinking, definitely. THE RULES: Eliminate the seeming anti-semitism &mdash; appears to be regional strife &mdash; that is, Galilean against Judean supremacy. This requires Judean(s) for Jew(s). Racial epithets invariably are harsh sounds like the N word, Jew (boy), Wop, Slob, Injun, or Chink. "Jews" is emblematic, why not the more historically sound and melodic, Jew-dee-ans? There are 101 believes in John (KJV). Retain "believe" instead of Weymouth's "trust," "regards," or "convinced." The watchword could be I AM [That I Am] He, rather blasphemous in that day. Order of Gospels should be JOHN, MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE, and ACTS. What better in the beginning than "In the beginning?" The Catholic Encyclopedia says John had sometimes been first in order in earlier times because of the surety of authorship (or statement of eye-witness account). The Epistles of Paul in historical order, is there a split Timothy movement, there is an outline in Weymouth? Make St. John, "the greatest marvel of all the world's literature," more literary and the most important letters in history more historical, if it happens, this would be a testament to the communion of minds available here and, come on, your particular verse may live forever. Change British spelling and Elizabethan phraseology of Weymouth (sometimes all that is required). Highlight Aramaic origin (at least once). Explain John 7:53, make consistent figures of speech and capitalization throughout, i.e. Life of the Ages (3rd edition Weymouth) = eternal Life (5th edition). I love John's theology, although his discourses are somewhat repetitious. Matthew, Mark and Luke are open source, you can discuss Alpha and Omega till Kingdom come and, wala, Wikibook? Gender neutral when possible. John is the Book of Signs, use "signs" for quoting that word when spoken and substitute, miracles, for the running commentary. Plan to reconstruct an icon "the truth" in Greek of the P52 fragment as the ultimate visual image of the earliest New Testament manuscript. Each new verse will follow Weymouth 5th edition, minor changes have already been made with problem words for the sake of consistency. Bracketed [text] is termed explanatory apposition or inline footnote, could be read not said. Need only three such notes in the Gospel of John, initiate the ultimate Word play, add a touch of the miraculous, and send everybody home. John as a Gospel evidences considerable play on words, punning, and irony, such irony they say, that the "very Christ" (7:26) is proclaiming the Word all about with total impunity.

An Actual Comment(s)
You know, the more common place to put this stuff is in your User Page, rather than your talk page. I'd move it for you, but you'd probably get mad. 64.198.97.66 19:17, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your courtesy. This is an experiment, I just finished the layout, you found it before I was ready to publicize. I am a newbie, so maybe I won't publish at all. I have to contact the initiator of John 20:16 and get his thoughts about Wikibook possibilities. Athrash 00:21, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Come back 64.198.97.66. How very fitting if the first verse (2:23) was edited anonymously, sure, there will be protocol for review with later verses, but if you feel the urge and accept the challenge, change the two words suggested, underline "believers" and leave your comment in the temporary (Discussion Start) section for the record. Even more fitting, it would be from the Avalon (High) School of Biblical Research, so well known in eccleciastical circles. &#45; Athrash | {Talk)  03:05, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Contact me through my talk page about Modern Translation alternative. Athrash | (Talk)  00:03, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I pasted this contact me notice from one of SimonP pages to another with original time intact and put myself in a box, just wanted to see if I could reproduce it. I'm having an outside the box experience, breaking all the rules. &#45; Athrash | {Talk)  21:53, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wow, the image worked and irony of ironies, everytime a verse is edited, "THE TRUTH" is refreshed. &#45; Athrash | {Talk)  23:26, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Praise God. I transferred everything to WikiChristian with original Wikipedia dates. [[User:Athrash|  &#45; Athrash |  {Talk)  ]] 13:17, 20 Apr 2005 (PDT)

Thanks Dr. Prab, my image would have had copyright problems, this is even better, outstanding, and the caption still represents the quest for the truth in religious modernity or post-modernity which years past may have fragmented. How did you find the verso so quickly, did you notice my initials came off that fragment also. This is monumental, is it possible to put the interlinear text on the image page, not sure about text on those pages? [[User:Athrash|  &#45; Athrash |  {Talk)  ]] 17:13, 20 Apr 2005 (PDT)

I put the Greek from K.C. Hanson translation in Word, (Note: no Greek characters in WikiChristian software) cannot paste to wiki. Will keep working on it and post it to the Image_talk whenever. Anyway, what symbolism, "The Truth" turned out to be a GIF from God. [[User:Athrash|  &#45; Athrash |  {Talk)  ]] 19:09, 20 Apr 2005 (PDT)

Non-denominational
Glad to help, one of the things I'm working on is moving some of the more cumbersome links to easier to find ones (e.g., moving "What does salvation mean?" to simply "salvation" since someone is far more likely to type that into the search bar). 08:36, 26 Apr 2005 (PDT)

= Annotation of N.T. (Discussion Start) = Why change the verse? example &mdash; 2:23 Judeans do sometimes designate their celebrations as Festivals. Suggest return to original "Feast" and maybe "witnessing" instead of watching miracles. Passover revolves around the food or festive meal, others could be, for example, Celebration of Tabernacles. Athrash 05:58, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

= Constructive criticism, if wanted = The translation below is rather free. We are dealing here with the Word of God! Therefore explanations belong into a commentary, not into the text (that's not just my view, that's even a pre-Christian tradition). If the syntax requires words to be supplied that are not in the Koine, then they should be placed in brackets, e.g. "creative power" in Jn 1:3 - that's apart from missing in this verse the difference betweeen "to come" and "to become" (when a bus comes along, hurray, but it has been in existence before it came into view...), and changing a negative into a positive statement. In v. 6 the translator introduces an appearance but drops a pregnant sending. In v. 7 the sending itself replaces the more humble came - humble, since this time it is the bus-type coming, not the being created one. Next a Semitism, a tell-tale literary feature, has been eliminated: "witness that he might witness". These few examples of liberties in the translation convince me that its value is limited to a literary exercise. The translator of the text below cannot be regarded as a servant of the original, I mean servant like doulos, you know: like Mary, like David, like in Isaiah?!!! Portress 22:36, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Granted, here only The Greatest Story ever told would suffice. &#45; Athrash | T a l k 20:50, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

DISCUSSION END &mdash; DISCUSSION END &mdash; DISCUSSION END &mdash; DISCUSSION END &mdash; DISCUSSION END

= NEW TESTAMENT =

MODERNITY VERSION

(moved to John 1)

Chapter 2

(moved to John 2)

Re: Book of the Month
Thanks for correcting my mistake, I copy-pasted and forgot to change month name.

Now everything is ok - the issue is with Wikimedia caching system - sometimes you have to reload page several times to see changes in templates used in it. Generally, if page and template used in it say something different, what you see in template is true. --Derbeth 15:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

What is Wikibooks
I changed WIW according to your suggestions. I'm not American so I am sometimes not aware of some small but vital details (like about educational system). --Derbeth talk 23:33, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Regarding Gospel 101 Translation
I accept the suggested task. It will take me a while. Thanks! Lazyquasar 07:31, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I wanted to let you know, I have decided to drop the gospel translation class for the moment. When I attempt it I get a lot of free associations that dogmatic believers might find heretical and I do not wish to expend the energy at the moment arguing with them.  I am attending adult sunday school and relearning the basics from an adult perspective.  Perhaps in a year or two I will be better prepared to venture into open discussion /debate on a public wiki such as this.  Thanks for the opportunity! Lazyquasar 02:03, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Speedy Delete
I have posted a reply to the thread at User talk:Kernigh. --Kernigh 01:28, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Deleting content on Christianity Wikibook
I'm sorry if it seemed arbitrary on the VfD. This really was a legitimate place to have a speedy delete of the module, which really didn't have any content at all. The sum total content of the page under dispute earlier was "There is no wikipage about this." I hardly consider that content worth keeping. I am not trying to condemn the idea of the Christianity Wikibook, and indeed I have been a general defender of the concept. I just felt that this one module needed rapid resolution as there was nothing to fight over.

I hope you continue to develop this Wikibook. Don't take my deletion of one page as a slight against the Christianity Wikibook in general. Keep up the very excellent work you have been doing here on Wikibooks. --Rob Horning 09:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

An invitation
Please take a look at http://christianity.wikia.com and consider joining our project! --70.25.244.31 07:27, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Policy review
Policy is not the most exciting subject at Wikibooks but we do have some major unresolved issues.

The most important issue, in my opinion, is Dispute resolution which starts by declaring that:

"Currently there is no official organized process to resolve disputes between users"

The suggested remedy for this is: Ad hoc administration committee which puts into place the absolute minimum in terms of an enforcement apparatus.

The second most important is No personal attacks where a vote has recommended the policy be enforced but it still languishes as "proposed".

The third policy that is needed and which will prevent edit disputes from getting out of hand is Editing disputes policy.

Other policies that need consideration are at: Policies and guidelines.

Please spare a minute or two to peruse these issues and add a comment and/or a vote. RobinH 12:22, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Christianity and such
I sent a message to User:TeamZissou, telling him that his actions are not correct, that he can't just delete content, and that he needs to work towards a solution as per Decision making. You need to do the same. Add your table of prophesies back into the page (because it was improperly deleted), and make a message on the corresponding talk page and on User:TeamZissou's talk page stating that the table has been reinserted, and that it should not be removed again without discussion first. User:TeamZissou has been warned, and if he causes more problems, we will be blocked. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:59, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

bold edits on recent changes page
A long time ago you asked why some edits on the recent changes page ( Special:Recentchanges ) were in bold. I finally figured out why. --DavidCary (talk) 01:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Template:Credo

 * Thank you for notice and fixing misplaced links in Modernity translation, I haven't been as active as before, My creed was meant to go on my talk page, but never finished it, will experiment with programming now. &#45; Athrash | T a l k 21:56, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

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