User talk:Aaron Pannell

Last edit on Cookbook:Baking
The last edit removed mention of sealant and added several incorrections for instance it now contradicts Cookbook:Egg Wash and removed also other information and generalizations. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 18:52, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Cookbook:Egg yolk would be the covering (but not a sealant) that results in the now mentioned browning... --Panic (discuss • contribs) 18:56, 30 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I'm unclear on what you're trying to say. What specifically do you feel was inaccurate or inconsistent? Egg wash contains egg yolk and acts as browning agent, and to a lesser extent a sealant, in addition to providing the 'shine' that is mentioned in Egg Wash. I don't believe I did remove any information there? - AP (discuss • contribs) 00:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Cookbook:Egg Wash was your change to my last alterations (I had referred to Cookbook:Egg White) In any case Cookbook:Egg Wash is limited in its description "For coating the top of baked goods, especially pies, to give a shine when baked." that contradict your assertion that "acts as browning agent". Cookbook:Egg Wash is not a good sealant. Depending on the ratio of yoke (a whole egg will compromise the sealant effect), since yoke upon heating starts to take a powdering consistency before "caramelization".
 * My last edit did make those distinctions clear, introduced the concept of sealant, restored the inaccuracy of the statement "Despite common misconceptions about the browning process moisture is never entirely sealed into the food." (never is a too stronger word to be used) there are recipes that specifically leave the interior uncooked (as my original edit stated it depends on the "(vessel, time and characteristics of the oven)", one could even use a simple "hot air oven" for special bakings...
 * So my objection is that the last edit does indeed remove information and adds incorrections to the information. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 00:42, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * It does not contradict my description, as I have already said it provides both browning and shine the fact that the egg wash article does not currently mention every function of an egg wash not withstanding. You are correct that an egg wash is not a perfect sealant - however if you used a perfect sealant on the crust of baked goods they would come out soggy and disgusting due to the excess moisture trapped inside (an egg white only wash would not be too-perfect a seal and I'm fine with mentioning both but most bakers prefer whole-egg). You are incorrect about never being too strong a word to use there: The only cooking method in which no moisture is allowed to escape is sous-vide, any other time you apply heat to food there will be moisture lost (try weighing a piece of chicken before and after poaching it - it will be noticeably lighter despite having been cooked gently while submersed in water). I mentioned the common misconception that browning seals in moisture because it is one of those pernicious and unfounded rumors that refuses to die the death it so greatly deserves - AP (discuss • contribs) 01:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Please note that I'm not attempting to make any other point about the issue than to provide the best content possible on the article, we are all volunteers here, and even if we can disagree from time to time the improvement of the content is the ultimate goal. I came across the edit because I do daily reviews of changes and fight general vandalism, to a less experienced Wikibookian my action may be persevered as antagonistic or authoritarian but that is not my intention, I rarely contribute to the Cookbook namespace, but did noticed that your changes contradicted my knowledge of the subject. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 00:51, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, your knowledge of this subject was wrong. ;) Happens to the best of us, those particular misconceptions are sometimes even repeated by professionals who ought to know better. - AP (discuss • contribs) 01:15, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * I disagree, our dialog has not proven any of my statements wrong. The fact is that the article now only mentions "...egg wash, can slow the loss of moisture as well as providing flavor and additional browning." and the page referenced only mentions that it provides 'shine' (my original reference to egg white was clearer and better as an example for a sealant). We have now determined that both pages need correction in this respect, and will benefit from related information that has transpired in this discussion.
 * I think that the main article under discussion would also benefit for the mention and distinction of functional, flavoring and esthetical coverings, for instance seeds.
 * I continue to disagree that "never" should be used, in our dialog you disregarded the specifics I added about "vessel, time and characteristics of the oven", you can bake something up to a degree and effectively seal the moisture at some point of the process it depends at what stage you let it then proceed, there are also ovens that will negate evaporation by physical means (not common but will negate the "never" assertion). It is even possible to be creative with distinct layers...


 * I'm familiar with combi-ovens. Even a combi-oven does not seal in all moisture, it's physically impossible. AP (discuss • contribs) 17:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I think we now agree in most of those points.
 * I do not claim to be an expert or particular interested on the subject and agree with you that professionalization does not equate with expertise and that expertise should not grant carte-blanch to dictate validity to others. Regarding that fact since you make a point about egg wash I think that it would be beneficial to that page to mention that packaged egg wash, mostly used in commercial baking, is produced mostly by using the content of broken eggs in industrial egg production and that its use in place of one or the other component (even possible at different steps of the baking, for their specific functionality) may be an indication of lack of quality/dedication in the preparation of the baked good. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 04:54, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * BTW, your writing style makes you come off as an arrogant high-school kid with more vocabulary than sense, I'm not sure why that is but it's something you should work on, I can't be bothered to read all that sophist bullshit just to argue about something you clearly don't understand. AP (discuss • contribs) 17:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)