Talk:US History/Secession

NPOV
This section needs a serious and thorough rewrite. Article is written with large pro-South bias. 140.247.40.201 06:47, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

i agree there needs to be re edititd by a Nutral party like a proffeser

...who kin spel gude.

I teach American history but will make no contribution, since my contributions to the Kant and Adorno essays were taken from me, incorporated in the current text which will be sold as soon as Wales thinks he can sell it, and then my user status was destroyed by AmerindianArts et al. because I don't take crap from convenience store clerks.

This facility is beyond hope and Wikipedia/media needs to be put of business, on the basis of tax law alone: it is an .org that means to be a .com and a conspiracy of insiders to make money by stealing the unpaid intellectual production of unwitting volunteers, and destroying their reputations if they question the insiders.

Jimbo Wales is a redneck with a redneck dream of making his fortune by way of slavery. That the slavery of "open content" is virtual time-sliced makes no difference. This is why this odious "textbook" downplays the cause of the civil war: slavery.

See you in prison, Wales.

Edward G. Nilges

Southern Bias
The whole section seems to have a Southern bias, especially under Jefferson Davis. I'll try and fix it up after the AP exams are over. I've also never really edited anything, but there's always a start. Actually, I don't see the real purpose to the section. It doesn't fit at all with the rest.Sameerkale 00:25, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * In reading through this, I would admit that there is a bit of an NPOV problem here, but at the same time this is an issue that has not really been effectively dealt with in American history and is an interesting point to bring up: under what sort of circumstances can a state be capable of leaving.  IMHO this has some modern implications, particularly with the vote for statehood by Puerto Rico where they would like the option of being able to leave the federal union if the future relationship between them and the rest of the United States becomes politically difficult.  The "one way" trip into statehood is certainly a detractor to joining America as a state. And I say this not as a southerner, but rather somebody whose ancestors either fought for the North or ditched the whole fight altogether by heading to the western frontier. --Rob Horning 20:42, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Every state has the natural right of secession: cf. Hobbes, Leviathan. It has this right in precisely the same way a citizen has the natural right to rob a convenience store: cf. Hobbes, Leviathan. It has this right in precisely the same way John Law has the right to detain a convenience store armed robber, using deadly force if needed: cf. Hobbes, Leviathan. It has this right in precisely the same way Abraham Lincoln, the greatest President the United States ever had, had the right to unleash Ulysses S. Grant on you boys: cf. Hobbes, Leviathan.

But no state has more than this natural right. The United States is a sovereign nation with rights under the charter of the United Nations to enforce its sovereignity using deadly force as needed.

You white trash think you're cute. You might be interested to know, especially if you think you're American patriots, that a KGB agent is predicting the break-up of the United States by 2010 owing to economic and moral decline, and you rednecks are an example of the latter. A world without the United States is a world of gangsters such as your filthy, slave-driving ancestors, who have always been the worst element in the USA.

Edward G. Nilges

Simple logic dictates that sovereignity attaches either to the states or the federal government. It can't be shared: a house divided against itself cannot stand. Bullshit artists like to evade this question: thus the bullshit artists of the European Union cannot answer the question of secession, but a real man in Brussells would raise troops if France tried to leave if he wanted the EU to be taken seriously thereafter: and Lincoln, unlike you BOYS was a MAN.

I'm serious. He'd levy Dutchmen, fantastical Spaniards, and Germans, and take Paris IF he wanted the EU to be a functioning entity, just as Lincoln raised troops.

This is NOT "tyranny". Lincoln knew that secession gets people killed and destroys economies.

You people seem to me to have serious problems with your fathers, and the Father's demands which you seem to have failed to meet. Thus you seriously open your yaps and repeat the Northern coward's "erring sisters depart in peace" policy as if Lincoln or Seward could do so and remain in office, much less end slavery, which is what they did (what part of better angels of our nature don't you understand?)

The fact is that there won't be world peace until we have a world government with an armed and dangerous United Nations, and this horrifies you because it's what Slavoj Zizek, the Slovenian philosopher calls the big other. You are Mama's boys who are wasting your lives doing slave work for Jimmy Wales because you are in permanent rebellion, as a bunch of wastrels and fools, against the Father.

Edward G. Nilges