Talk:Swing Dancing/Silly moves

Old talk
"All dancers do swing outs alike, but every dancer is silly in his or her own way" sounds like a paraphrase of the opening lines of Tolstoy's Anna Karenina, rather than something by Dostoevsky. I don't know enough to make the edit, though.
 * Molinari

Not sure where these should go ... but could help remember doing these:

Sailor kicks: Lead and follow are side by side facing opposite directions, doing charleston kicks to their left while turning clockwise. Lead's left hand is holding the follow's right arm across the leads shoulders. Lead's right arm is wrapped around the follow's back holding the follow's left hand at the waist.

Titanic: A freeze made popular by the movie Titanic. The Freeze stops in a tandem position with the follow in front leaning forward while the lead braces from behind. It is started from facing with a cross handed lead, and is done as an explosive underarm turn in 1 count.

Article name
Why does this page exist? "Silliness" is extremely subjective, and considering that none of the dance moves listed here actually belong to a real category of dance moves called "silly dance moves," this page isn't really necessary, or factually complete/correct. It should be a section in an article about dance moves, under "Humorous moves" or somesuch other name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Swaly (talk • contribs) 2005-12-15 19:46:00UTC.
 * I agree that the article name is rather incorrect. Yes, silliness is subjective, but the described moves are purposefully "silly", whatever, so a separate article makes sense. Also, the word "silly" in this context does not mean "stupid", but  "playful" or "humorous". For sure, there is no move with the proper name "Silly", so I am renaming the  "Silly (dance move)" to a more specific title, Silly dance moves in Lindy. I don't feel that   "playful", "funny" or "humorous" properly cover the term "silly" here. I don't have much time now to explain what I mean. Just think about "silly songs". mikka (t) 20:05, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced "Silly" is the right term either. I'm not argueing against the concepts of parody that exist in AVJD, especially in the Cake Walk.  The moves under this category are not all silly, maybe some are playful... but really what you're talking about are jazz steps that can be conducted with a "Siily" or "playful" styling and that, my friends, is *all* of the jazz steps that exist.   Azeroth 18:20, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

New Talk
PlainJaneI t hink that the issue of humour in lindy hop is really important. Humourous dance steps are very important in African American vernacular dance, particularly in lindy. They take a range of forms, from the 'pimp walk' which is an immitation of pimps in Harlem to the 'shorty george'. Humorous steps can derisive, appreciative, inviting observers to recognise the immitated person or character, etc etc. Today, humour is just as important in lindy hop communities. There is a range of scholarly literature discussing the role of humour in dance, and people like Lee Ellen Friedland, Katrina Hazzard Gordon and Jacqui Malone make the argument that dance is a space for social commentary - where people in the community can indicate their dislike of someone or something (through derisory immitations), can resolve conflicts (as in battles), can woo potential partners. The best argument for humour as important to lindy hop and other vernacular dances is the cake walk where black slaves would immitate white plantation owners in a dancing competition, exaggerating the primping and preening and 'snooty' posing and walks of Europeans. While these competitions were often sanctioned by the very slave owners who were being immitated, this often made the irony and humour even more pertinent. For slaves who had no social power, the power to immitate and comment on their lives through dance were very important. That the cake walk later became an international dance trend with whites is even more ironic.

Having said that, this article does not address these issues in sufficient depth. It needs to be rewritten. I am happy to go back and do this but I'm a bit busy atm. If anyone's particularly interested, they should consult books and articles by these authors:

etc
 * Tommy DeFrantz
 * Katrina Hazzard Gordon
 * LeeEllen Friedland
 * Johnathon David Jackson
 * Jacqui Malone
 * Marshall and Jean Stearns
 * Arthur Murray (limited use)