Talk:Russian/Lesson 4

Order
Perhaps these should be sorted by part of speech and meaning, rather than alphabetically. Snargle 05:58, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

bad, bad idea
I was astonished to find such an alphabetical list of words titled as "lesson 4". That title gives the impression of a serious lesson to be used to seriously learn a language. I dont see this is the case with this article. I know it says "These memory aids aren't true! They're nonsense made up to help you remember the meanings of Russian words" but then the article should not be titled as "lesson 4" And actually I dont see the use of nonsense memory aids. There are two things about this list I would like to criticise.

1) I criticise aide memoire as used in this article. Let me tell you why by using an example:

Где;	 	Where;	G'dyeh;

Australians are always late. The Australian greeting "G'day" doesn't mean "Good day," it means "Where were you?"

The first line is alright. There you have the russian word, the translation and an attempt to write the soundprofile in english. It is the second line I dont think is suitable. I think it makes the process of learning a language more difficult than necessary. What do australians have to do with russian? What does "G`day" have to do with Где? These are associations you dont need because they are meaningless.

What in fact will happen if you use that method is remembering similar sounds as:

"Где=G`day"

Sorry to say this, but this association is wrong.

What you should remember is

"Где= where".

Nothing more and nothing less. You dont need australians to remember this. You can write and say "Где" three times, then you should have it stored in your memory. And if you really want to make sure that you remember Где you can construct a sentence of your own using that word. You might think this way of learning is old fashioned and boring, but it is working. And it leaves space for more important associations you will have to store in your memory later on.

Your associations with the word Где later on should be like this:

-"Где=where"

"when answering to a question containing Где, the 6th case is used"

-"куда=where to. that is motion towards thus the 4th case is used"

Any australians or "G`days" are only in the way, it is luggage you dont need.

2) My second point of criticism is the alphabetical order of this list. Do you only want to learn the order of letters in the russian alphabet then go ahead, its fine. Do you intend to learn the vocabulary (as i suppose was the intention of this list) then you should forget about alphabetical order and gather words in groups of topics. For example would one topic be titled "saying hello" and would contain Доброе утро (good morning), Добрый день (good afternoon) and Здравствуйте (be greeted). Your brain is better at storing vocabulary by topic than by alphabet.

I conclude that such an alphabetical list of words is a bad, bad idea when you are aiming at learning a language properly. so, could somebody rename this article and call it something like "a fake-lesson 4" or "funny list of words (not to be taken seriously)"? Please stop people from clogging their brains with australians and G`days. thank you.


 * Alphabetical lists of words are needed when you read or hear a word you don't know, and want to look it up. That's what Russian-English dictionaries are for. I agree that words are best learned in groups; that's why there's a page with all the colors, all the furniture words, etc. Ideally we'll have both subject groups and an alphabetical dictionary for all words.


 * Regarding "mental picture" memory association aids, that's how human brains work. We learn things by associating a new item with an item we already know. Native Russians try to teach Russian by associating words, e.g., the word for "stairway" contains the word for "forest" and literally means "forest of stairs." That works well if you knew the word for "forest." 3rd- and 4th-year students associate new Russian words with Russian words they already know. But if you're a 1st-year student and don't know the word for "forest," then thinking of a "forest of stairs" isn't going to help you remember "stairway." If you know Latin, French, and German (and English) you can associate many Russian words with words you know, because so much of Russian is borrowed from other languages. But if you only know English, then you're left associating Russian words with English words that sound like the Russian words. Sometimes the associations are straightforward, e.g., all Russian houses have big domes like you see on Russian churches, so the word for "house" sounds like "dome." But other associations are difficult. "Gde" sounds just like an English (actually, Australian) phrase we all know, but the meaning is entirely different.


 * Usually you can use the "mental picture" memory aid for a few weeks, and than you know the word and forget the mental picture. This technique is recommended by teachers of many foreign languages (e.g., the book "How To Learn Any Foreign Language" has a chapter about this). And a side benefit is that Russians love to hear Americans' "mental pictures." You can entertain a Russian friend by explaining that Russians never take their shirts off outdoors so they all have white bellies ("belly" means "white"), etc.--Thomas David Kehoe 18:06, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Hm.
I see that whoever wrote the page has the annoying habit of some russian books to leave the two dots off of e.( like in the word for actor). This makes the pronounciation misleading.

Oh, and also, "zdrastvuj". Is I guess semi-formal. It's not as easy or carefree as "privet", yet not as formal as "zdravstvujte". Ladywater 06:43, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Please mark the stress on those words!
Without the stress, I'm forced to look it up for every word, that would take forever!