Talk:Rhetoric and Composition/Researching

I think the citation information should all be in one area instead of in 2+ places in this section. - Mindy

Talk 1
In reading this page, it seems to that the tone is off. For example, here's an exmaple of the diction being used: "Evaluating your sources is a major component of researching. Making sure that the sources you choose are valid is a key point to making your essay more reputable. To determine the relibility of both print and internet sources there are key points to look for."

The information is accurate -- evaluating sources matters. But the diction is that of a student writer trying to sound like a textbook. So the use of the to be verb dominates the sentence structure because that verb defines, and you get a sentence like, "Making sure that the sources you choose are valid is a key point to making your essay more reputable."

Why am I drawing attention to this?

It seems to me the potential strength and value of a textbook written by students is the chance for students to talk to students like students. Why talk to other students trying to sound like a 45 year old writing teacher who has read too many textbooks over the years? Student writers come new to many of the ideas a textbook tries to convey. Write with that energy. Write in your own voices. Use the first person. Maybe something like this is an approach that can unstuck writers from imitating textbooks: The first time I did research for a project that I can remember was in the fourth grade. I had to write a report on spiders. I remember somewhere along the line the teacher saying that if we used something from a source, we had to quote it, but if we put that something in our own words or changed some of the souces words we didn't have to quote it. So for my report on spiders I went to the Encylopedia Britannica (Wikipedia didn't exist then.), and pretty much copied the entry on spiders, careful to change enough words --at least two or three-- in every sentence so that I didn't have to quote.

Needless to say, but I'll say it anyway because this is a textbook, that's not how you should do research. What worked in fourth grade, what may have worked in high school in some cases, won't work in college.

So what is research in college writing and why does it matter? As writers, can you find your natural voices? Can you talk to students as students? If you can, I think the book will be both easier to write, but also more useful to read. You can also imagine more inviting for other students to begin contributing too.

Nick

Hyperlinking within the same page
Whowever made the points about audience, etc...I think it is a great idea. I've been playing around with the format and if anyone knows how to hyperlink from those 5 points to an area further down the page that will explain the 5 points in more detail, let me know, or please do it.

Redundance of ADAM
To me, the section ADAM seems to be redundant to the section above it. For instance, date in ADAM matches current in the section above. --Dan Polansky (talk) 09:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Matt's Thoughts
Wow, this is a big, intimidating chapter. It seems a lot longer and involved than it needs to be. It looks like past editors have just added on text without really considering how it fits with the rest; we end up with a lot of redundancy and incoherence as a result.

Research is such a big topic that I'd recommend being focused here strictly on college writing and the type of sources most professors expect to see: peer-reviewed journal articles, which are now usually available online through university library websites, and scholarly books. I wouldn't even bother here talking about newspapers, magazines, and general websites, since most professors wouldn't consider them acceptable sources anyway.

It seems that this could be simply broken down into 3 processes: finding sources (focusing on library database search engines and Google Scholar), evaluating sources (maybe ADAM could come in here), and integrating them into your own writing (this could be briefly introduced and then send them to the links on citing sources and plagiarism). The division of print and web seems unnecessary, and the bit about ADAM just seems grafted on here (maybe it could be fit into the categories above). Finally, it might be worth mentioning some general note-taking strategies and tools like Evernote or Zotero.

Again, the They Say, I Say book by Graff et al. seems relevant here. I realize we can't just imitate them everywhere, but I really like how they frame it as a conversation. Research becomes more about familiarizing yourself with a conversation than just cherry picking facts and quotations to support your personal opinion. That's also why this section comes early in the process, since students who aren't aware of the conversation aren't likely to come up with a good thesis or draft a good essay, much less have an awareness of their audience. --Mattbarton.exe (talk) 22:36, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Matt H's thoughts
I like the section on considering audience, although I think audience consideration is perhaps a broad enough topic to warrant its own page.

The “Evaluating Web Sources” could benefit from a brief commentary on the perceived credibility of Wikipedia as a source.

“Using and correctly citing outside sources is hugely important to the ethical portrayal of you as a writer.” – This could be rewritten, although I’m not sure how as I am not confident I sufficiently understand the sentence’s meaning to rewrite the sentence itself.

--Matt.helm (discuss • contribs) 02:27, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Faith's thoughts
One of the things i missed in this section was field research. Interviews, polls, and surveys are not of huge importance to English majors, but are to students studying in other fields. An overview of this type of research might be useful.--SFaithL (discuss • contribs) 15:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Emily's Thoughts
I like the idea of breaking down this section into three areas. Visually organizing them that way can make an intimidating process look less so.

Perhaps something could be mentioned about online searches and using synonyms? In the age of Google, I find most of my students type in a word and if they don't find what they were looking for, they give up and go to Google. --Emily.isackson (discuss • contribs) 20:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I like the three stage approach too: choosing sources, evaluating sources (with an eye to Widipedia's potential skewed articles) and how to incorporate sources into one's writing. As Faith noted, field interviewing is legitimate for academic as well as general media writing and could be included. And as Dr. B noted, this is an hulking intimidating section.

Karl's Thoughts
The section does seem to be all ove the place, and would probably benefit from a focus strictly on academic writing. I like the notion of 3 sections: Choosing sources, evaluating sources and using using sources in academic. That number is far less intimidating and would make the section easier to assimilate.