Talk:Project+/Archive 1

Book's Author: I have no idea what is wrong with the person who recommended this book for speedy deletion. But s/he is wrong about everything: "not a textbook" ?? Why not? "not linked anywhere else within Wikibooks" ? Since when is this a criteria? "appears to be using Wikibooks as a web hosting service" WTF? How am I doing that anymore than any other contributer here? "

Whoever recommended my contribution for speedy deletion needs to get a life. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.65.151.4 (talk • contribs).


 * First of all, convince me that you really are the author (likely, as only you seem to be responding here, although you are using a very different IP address nor are using the user account name that started this page). Next, have you actually read WB:WIW?  Try it.... there are specific rules about what is permitted within Wikibooks.  Content not meeting these criteria are candidates for a speedy delete.  Linking from elsewhere on Wikibooks?  Well, out of 25,000 pages of content, the likelihood of somebody coming across your little page here seems very remote unless it is indexed somewhere to the various cataloging systems used within Wikibooks.  While not iron clad proof, pages like this can be linked elsewhere on the web for one reason or another and are used for a whole bunch of reasons, most of which have absolutely nothing to do with textbook development.


 * The only reason I'm responding here at all (I might be criticized for even trying) is that I would like to see somebody like you, the author of this content, help to "join" the Wikibooks community and have this content become part of the whole of this project, instead of isolated by itself left to eventually die. By your own admission on the top of this page, this is "CompTIA PK0-002 Exam Notes 1.0"... in other words study notes regarding some sort of college level class that you are taking.  It is in this regards that I see this as using Wikibooks as a web hosting service, akin to Geocities or some other free web page.  Wikibooks explicitly prohibits this kind of activity as it is counter-productive to the goals of this project and sucks network bandwidth away from the real goals of this project.  We don't have a problem with that because we stop these kind of pages before they even get started.


 * What I'm interested in seeing addressed here is what your plans are for turning this outline into something which resembles a book. While this can be considered a detailed outline, I don't see any effort to create a textbook, including exploring any of these ideas on this outline in any depth.  While many Wikibooks do start out as outlines, the difference between what you are doing here and "any other contributor" is that other contributors do expand the outline to become a sort of narrative.  If you want to see what I'm talking about, look at Featured books.  And convince me that this attempt here can eventually get on that page.  Right now, it will never get there.  --Rob Horning 18:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

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>> First of all, convince me that you really are the author

How?

>> Next, have you actually read WB:WIW?

Yes. Have you? You don't seem like it you have read it, or understood it.

>> Linking from elsewhere on Wikibooks? Well, out of 25,000 pages of content, the likelihood of somebody coming across your little page here seems very remote

1) This book has only been posted here for a few days.

2) This book is very easy to find. If you want to study for the CompTIA Project+, you just enter Project+ in the search box.

3) I don't know how to enter the book into the cataloging system. This is the first, and only, book I have ever contributed here. I am new to wikis, and very new to this site.

>> By your own admission on the top of this page, this is "CompTIA PK0-002 Exam Notes 1.0"... in other words study notes regarding some sort of college level class that you are taking.

Nope. This book was created from notes for a computer certification, which I have already taken, and passed.

>> It is in this regards that I see this as using Wikibooks as a web hosting service, akin to Geocities or some other free web page.

Not at all. Even if had not passed the test. This book has a very narrow, and specific, subject. It is not a personal blog or anything like that. BTW: there are books here about CompTIA's Network+ exam, and A+ exam. Why are you not complaining about those? Furthermore, consider the organization of material - it is formated like a book, not a general purpose website. Furthermore a geocities site is not usually editable by the readers.

>> What I'm interested in seeing addressed here is what your plans are for turning this outline into something which resembles a book.<<

There are numerous books on this site which are much less complete than mine. Take a look at the "Comptia Network Plus" book. Isn't the idea to let the community contribute? This book has only been here for a few days.

>> I would like to see somebody like you, the author of this content, help to "join" the Wikibooks community

Well you are certainly not encourging me. The day after I went though the trouble of changing my ascii notes into a wikibook, all I get is somebody griping. Screw it, delete the thing if you so anxious to do so.

Who are you? And why do you care? Is this book hurting you?


 * Actually, in terms of the current version of WB:WIW.... I helped to write a good portion of it. As far as who I am, I'll leave that for you to figure out.


 * Please relax here and don't get so stressed. And as a word of advise, you don't go swinging your elbows acting like you own everything whenever you try to join a new community of any kind.  I would like to help out here, and if you give me the chance I can help you out in terms of learning some of the editing tools and some of the special features that are available with this Wiki software that can give what you are writing some brilliance and polish.  And to learn a little bit about why we in the Wikibooks community do what we are doing.


 * I marked this as a deletion candidate, but that was to give you exactly the opportunity to explain what it is that you are trying to accomplish here. And because I felt that a second opinion was necessary to review this content beyond even my own opinion on the subject.


 * As far as why I care about Wikibooks and this particular book, I'll give you a chance to figure that one out on your own as well. But I do care and want to see Wikibooks grow and succeed.  BTW, it would help if you registered an account with Wikibooks and tried to use that same account name on subsequent edits, mainly so we can communicate with you on a more peaceful and moderate tone.  Just know that there are other people reading and watching what you are doing.  --Rob Horning 23:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

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Frankly, having to defend the right of my book to be here, is more trouble than it's worth. Go ahead and delete it.

I only became aware of this site a few days ago. At first, I thought the site was a great idea. I thought I could make books of my CompTIA notes, and that those books might be helpful to others. It took a fair amount of work on my part, but I didn't mind. I was not expecting any thanks, but I was not expecting to be treated like a criminal either.


 * You tell me a book does not have to be complete, but you harass me and threaten to delete my book for just that reason.


 * You tell me that a book does not have to categorized. But, again you threaten to delete my book for that.


 * You accuse me of using this site as my personal website. But, if I am doing that, then so is everybody else. In particular, there are several comptia exam prep wikibooks here, and they are not much different than mine.


 * My attempted contribution may not be the best book on this site, but it's not the worst either.

To be honest, I am somewhat offended. But, it's not my site, you can do what you like. Happily there are plenty of other wiki sites, which I am certain will not be so fussy.

Again, sorry it didn't work out. Just delete the book and be done with it. Sorry to have caused you so much grief.

Speedy Deletion Nomination
The speedy deletion nomination has been contested, so i have removed that warning and replaced it with a VfD nomination. All interested parties are encouraged to discuss the future of this book at WB:VFD. Considering that this is a new book, and it has an active contributor, i think that it is unlikely to be deleted, but we still need to talk about it through the proper channels.

As an additional note, I want to remind all the old contributors, and to inform the new contributors that all wikibookians must be civil towards one another. If somebody has an opinion that you don't agree with, you should calmly discuss the issue, and not get angry and start hurling insults or whatever. There will be repercussions if uncivil or unproductive discussions continue on this page or on other pages. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 23:57, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * BTW, I don't mind that this page was changed from a speedy delete to a VfD.... or would even necessarily complain loudly if the deletion notice was removed completely. I did want somebody else to review if this content was appropriate for Wikibooks, and apparently this has happened.


 * I will say, however, I still have no clue from the contents of this page what exactly this is about, as the name "Project+" doesn't seem to mean anything to me at all, and the content of this outline doesn't even address any basics... like what exactly is CompTIA (I had to Google search that link, BTW) or what this has to do with projects. I guess the Wikipedia article does address in a single sentence what this is about.  I wish something that simply written was on this page to explain even where to begin adding to this article.  --Rob Horning 19:27, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand your confusion, but we don't require that a book must explain itself, and we don't really put any requirements at all on a book in the first week of it's existence. I really feel that this deletion nomination was made much too quickly and the anger of the author in this case seems perfectly justified to me. It's a shame that we lost a potential contributor over a misunderstanding over the scope of a new book. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 22:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)