Talk:Never Used a Computer

Never Used a Computer
I've moved this back here. This book is about flat-out basics for absolute beginners. For a more specific tutorial on Windows XP, I've left the book Windows XP for Beginners as a separate project. -- Klafubra 23:34, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

As a passing comment, it may be worthwhile to have a section on how to explore in a computer. In the limited sample of my family members and friends, those that are computer illiterate are most afraid of breaking the computer, which makes them afraid to try out new things. I'd argue that the ability to explore a computer on your own is a key skill to get anywhere in using a computer. The section could have some info like what is safe to do, what you should avoid doing, ways to try out things if you don't know what they do, etc.

--Naerbnic 21:54, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Help my bewk. We could be 1337 together. ^_^;; --Cyberman 04:02, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Naerbnic - That's a great idea. I'll try to fit it in somewhere sometime. Cyberman - I'm kind of busy with my book, but I'll check yours out and see if I can add anything. By the way, I know nothing about A+ cerfification. :-)

--Kram 23:05, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I wrote a bit on web browsing, but there is a paradox here. If the poor computer-illiterate doesn't even know how to browse the web, how are they even reading this book anyway?! I think wikibooks really needs an easy way to export PDFs or something, books like this one can be printed and given out to under-developed countries etc.

--Sideris 18:29, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

First of all Sideris, you should move your bit on web browsing to the actual chapter instead of the TOC. Also, I copied the text from the website, put it in OOo Writer, and exported it as a pdf. This worked okay, but it would be better if there was a program that would take the source for the wikibook and make a pdf out of it.

--Kram 17:09, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Yes, sorry I put it in the TOC, it was a moment of confusion :-) I will move it when I find some free time. About printing: it is easy to print one-page articles from wikipedia in the way you described, but the structure that wikibooks follow would make printing one whole wikibook very tedious. You need a program for that (and again, if I find the time, I'll sit down and write it myself!)

--Sideris 11:54, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Paradox
I agree with kram that there is a paradox here - how can a person who doesn't "know how to move a mouse" browse through this?

Windows XP for Beginners
I moved this here because: almost all new computer users will have Windows XP, it is impossible to accurately teach several operating systems, and it's almost all Windows XP stuff anyway.--Naryathegreat 01:12, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Also, do you really think that anyone who is new to computers would use Linux, I mean, come on, get serious- new users dont go out and buy Linux, period.--Naryathegreat 01:19, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * They don't go out and buy any OS, period. They do get Linux on the $199 Walmart computers though, and they get MacOS X on Macs.


 * Okay, smartguy, yes, they do buy an OS sometimes, but no, not when getting a computer. And no one who buys that $199 computer with linux will be happy they did-they are bad for new users, period.  And there's a reason you never see REAL books about all kinds of different OS's, for instance, maybe you might see Mac OS X and Windows, but you can't describe how to use the trillion plus linux os's in one book (well, since they all are just Windows 98-GUI clones, maybe you can).--Naryathegreat 04:35, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't see why you think so. Maybe you would not like a Linux computer. Somebody expecting to run a particular Windows-only game will of course be unhappy. The modern Linux box can do all the basic grandma tasks though. If you're thinking about the command line (like a fancy DOS box, ugh), you haven't seen a modern end-user-oriented Linux distribution.


 * It may be news to you, but many people only use the web browser. Consider that this provides email access, online tax prep, all the forums one could want, flash-based games for the grandkids, wikipedia, and so on. Linux boxes even continue functioning long after they are purchased, while Windows boxes are often replaced because of spyware-related slowdowns and crashes. AlbertCahalan 22:19, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'm okay with the name change, but there is some Linux information in the book already. Should it be removed? --Kram 21:01, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * If this book aims to about Windows XP, then anything not about windows xp should not be here. So I deleted a section on creating symbolic links in linux. Delete any more if you find 'em. Reub2000 01:48, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

At least until someone creates a Linux for Beginners. I'm sorry I changed it without saying anything, but to me it just seemed common sense. If I offended someone, I'm sorry.--Naryathegreat 23:35, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I don't think the change by Naryathegreat was a good idea. I would like to change it back to Never Used a Computer. Here is why:


 * Windows XP will be obsolete in a few years. It would be nice to make this book a bit more generic and future proof.


 * This books includes info about hardware, as it should. Absolute beginners need to be informed about hardware just as much as software. They also find it hard to distinguish between hardware and software, so both should be included in the same book.


 * There is a lot more to computers than just the operating system. The info on the internet is totally independent of the operating system.


 * Naryathegreat says it is impossible to accurately teach several operating systems. As the original name implied, the book is meant for absolute square-one beginners. They don't need to be taught accurately about any operating system. They only need to know the very basics, which are similar enough for XP, Linux and MacOS.  It is not hard to include supplementary info where there are differences. Why do we need to exclude non-Windows users categorically if they can be catered for with little effort?


 * Naryathegreat says almost all new computer users will have Windows XP. What he has failed to ask is whether people reading this book will have Windows XP. People in developing nations will find this book more useful than people in the West who can afford tutorials. We should also aim this book at the vast population in developing nations purchasing the "100 dollar PC" over the next few years, most likely a Linux PC.


 * Naryathegreat says it's almost all Windows XP stuff anyway. Not it's not. There is a large section on hardware and the internet in general, and some users are already trying to delete the section because of the name.

I have nothing against a book called Windows XP for Beginners and Intermediates but this does not seem to be the intention of this book. -- Klafubra 18:33, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Organizing the book
Hi there, you have a nice book that grows well. I'd like to suggest two things: Windows XP for Beginners/Introduction Windows XP for Beginners/Buying A Computer Windows XP for Beginners/Flat Out Basics and so on. (You can move pages easily with the "move" command on top of the page, once you are logged in). If you need any help or advice, just ask. --Andreas 20:05, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) On the main page, you don't have to put links to subpages into sections . It just invites people to click on the "edit" button to the right and put their information to the wrong place, and you have to write this "If you want to add stuff, click on the chapter please!" line, which, frankly, I have not seen on other Wikibooks. Why? Because they don't use headings for links. Have a look at these simple examples: Hamster Care, How To Build A Computer, CPAM with TWW, ...
 * 2) There are several ways to organize books (see the current discussion at Hierarchy naming scheme), but I would recommend you to change to a more standardized delimiter, using either ":" or "/". The latter (subpages via "/") will give you the additional benefit of an autmatic link back to the main page of your book. Your subpages would then be organized as

Thanks Andreas, I think I'll fix the layout right now. --Kram 15:53, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * On the How To Build A Computer wikibook, we have a simplified TOC, then a link to the more complete TOC. I think that would be a good idea for this book too. Reub2000 22:43, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Removal of Computer Buying 101 Chapter
Since it's about XP, and not Computer Buying 101, I believe the "Buying a Computer" section isn't really appropriate for this book. --icez

This book was originally for people who never used a computer. Naryathegreat then insisted on calling it Windows XP for Beginners. I do think it is appropriate to include hardware because a) beginners find it hard to distingush between hardware and software b) beginners will find the information very useful. Klafubra 17:56, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)