Talk:Muggles' Guide to Harry Potter/Books/Order of the Phoenix/Chapter 1

Re: Whether Dudley will exhibit magical tendencies in Deathly Hallows
The quote referred to was made by Jo in March of 1999, before the publication of Prisoner of Azkaban. Here it is in its entirety:

"In my books, magic almost always shows itself in a person before age 11; however, there is a character who does manage in desperate circumstances to do magic quite late in life, but that is very rare in the world I am writing about." --[quoted here]

There is no indication that this quote refers to Dudley, or that the character will appear in Deathly Hallows. I believe that it referred to Merope Gaunt, who was thought a Squib but was able to perform magic in later life to protect herself from her father.


 * I'm sorry, I have to disagree. Granted, both of the Gaunts called Merope a Squib, but she was quite clearly doing magic, albeit weakly, when we first saw her in the hut. The fact that they abused her and denigrated her magical abilities does not imply that she was, in fact, a squib; and if she was, they would have been a lot more surprised when she suddenly started magically defending herself from her father. Chazz (talk) 22:35, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Having checked the book, I can confirm at this point that Merope was using magic and therefore was not a squib. Shortly after Ogden entered the hut, Merope dropped a pot; she stooped to pick it up, and Marvolo demanded that she use her wand. She dropped the pot again, and tried to spell the pot back up with her wand; instead it flew away across the floor and broke against the wall. True, the spell she was trying to use failed, but from her appearance she was very flustered, and without formal training it is extremely likely that she just fumbled. (I do not believe that Marvolo would have sent his daughter to Hogwarts, with the likes of Dumbledore there. Dippet might have been headmaster, but Dumbledore would have been teaching Transfiguration at that point.) I must correct myself also on one point: at no time does Merope ever use magic to defend herself from her father. To be precise: at no point does Merope defend herself, or Bob Ogden, from her father or her brother. Chazz (talk) 18:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * One further item: Rowling later said that the plot line had changed since the 1999 interview, and it was no longer necessary for the character mentioned, to do any magic at all. So that part of things was dropped. Chazz (talk) 19:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Dementors
I think there is a very big mistake in this analysis. It's quite clear that Muggles (and Squib) cannot SEE the Dementors but it's never said that they can't FEEL them. In the first chapter of the Half-Blood Prince, the two minister discuss the general depressive feelings that the Muggle population shows and the mist that seems to cover all England. Both phenomenon are told to be linked with dementors. During the two last books, we hear about multiple Dementors attack with some against Muggles. There is no reason at all that Dudley (still being a perfect Muggle) can't be attacked by a dementor.


 * Did we hear of Dementors attacking Muggles? Apart from Dudley, I don't recall any. Chazz (talk) 01:12, 11 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Lupin says, in "Prisoner of Azkaban," that "even Muggles feel (Dementors') presence, though they can't see them." This maks it canon - Dudley wouldn't have seen the Dementors, but felt their presence and was affected by them. Mrs Figg's testimony later in the book is a good approximation of what Dydley would have felt. 92.236.37.167 (discuss) 15:04, 27 September 2015 (UTC)


 * And yet, Mrs. Figg's first words to Harry are "Dementors! In Little Whinging!" Which leads one to wonder how, if she couldn't see them, she was able to perceive them so clearly as to be so concrete about it. Chazz (talk) 18:35, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

But why do you think this happened Shawna1982 (discuss • contribs) 01:28, 1 January 2017 (UTC)


 * The thing is that the plural is no more necessarily marked than the singular is. "Dementors" may just mean "at least one Dementor, I don't know how many". To say "at least two Dementors" with precision, one would have to say "various Dementors", "a couple of Dementors" or the like.--131.159.76.213 (discuss) 16:52, 15 March 2017 (UTC)


 * True, but in this instance not germane. Whether she perceives that there are two, or not, she can still perceive something that she interprets as one or more Dementors, something that is possibly ruled out by Lupin's statement in PoA. The issue is the perception, not the quantity. Chazz (talk) 03:19, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Bump!

Lupin says, verbatim, in Prisoner of Azkaban, "Even Muggles feel their presence, though they can't see them." This is discussed in the Dementor article.

I think there's far too much discussion in this article (and indeed a main focus) on why Dementors affected Dudley, whereas there either shouldn't be any (as it's been explained in canon), or merely as a brief question. It shouldn't really be a bone of contention so much. Pookiyama (discuss • contribs) 23:31, 26 June 2019 (UTC)


 * I certainly can't argue that point. But the problem seems to be that Rowling says that Muggles (and hence, presumably, Squibs) can't see them, and that they can, and so there is contradiction in canon. And for some reason this has caused no end of controversy... would you like to try simplifying things? Chazz (talk) 03:16, 27 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Understood.


 * There's nothing in the text to suggest that Dudley saw the Dementors at all - he just feels their effect (his unsteady comments to Uncle Vernon later suggest that he assumed it was Harry casting a spell at him). JKR later said, as has been mentioned, that Mrs Figg didn't see them either, but testified as though she could in order to protect Harry (and also felt their presence as per her testimony).


 * This can be simplified as "Dudley could feel the effect of the Dementors, and was disabled by this, but was unable - as a Muggle - to see them." It may also be worth adding something like "Mrs Figg also couldn't see the Dementors, but her knowledge of the magical world allowed her to recognise their effects." I'd add this to the text, but it needs more of a re-write than that, and right now I haven't the time... Pookiyama (discuss • contribs) 18:59, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Cracking noise
Shouldn't that "loud, echoing crack" be explained in a little more detail? Especially since this Guide's coverage of the next chapter doesn't mention it at all... -- 188.27.167.164 (discuss) 23:52, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

JK Rowling Links
Links, such as the following, are scattered throughout the articles here. It would be nice if they could all be updated. I assume her comments are still available somewhere?

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=19

--184.64.102.148 (discuss) 12:04, 27 November 2018 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately it's not so easy. When Rowling updated her site, all of these items were consigned to the dustbin of history... the only option as far as I know is to use the Internet Archive. I plan to retrieve the original quotes from that source, and make them into embedded footnotes, but while the spirit is willing... the flesh just hasn't gotten around to it yet. Chazz (talk) 16:23, 27 November 2018 (UTC)