Talk:MagicJack/Introduction

Reduce links to Wikipedia
Depending on Wikpedia to define terms is discouraged. While WP articles generally link to articles on terms discussed, Wikibooks prefers that a each book be more self-contained so that readers won't need access to anything but the book (which might be downloaded and read electronically, or even printed). Given the book scope, these terms should be discussed. --Swift (talk) 03:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Citation needed
I've added a few citation needed templates. I found some of the claims needing some source to back them up. Notably: --Swift (talk) 03:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The page states that because magicJack uses a "true CLEC", it "has a competitive advantage over other VOIP providers." Can anyone explain why?
 * "the most visible advantage is seen in the large number of area codes (and prefixes) available to MagicJack customers." What, exactly, does that mean, and is there any comparison for this. Do other VoIP services not provide services to some countries/areas?
 * "Extremely low price."

Removed irrelevant content
I've removed a part of a sentence:
 * "MagicJack allows the use of a softphone with a headset (connected to the computer's speaker/mic sockets), as well as a traditional handset through the supplied USB device which acts as an ATA."

Most VoIP clients that I've come across allow for the use of a headset, and it is thus not a unique feature to magicJack.

I've also removed the following points:
 * " (After one year there has been no advertising, except special offers provided by MagicJack.)."
 * "Utilizes mass-consumer advertising via infomercials."

They seem tangential and irrelevant, respectively, to unique magicJack features. --Swift (talk) 03:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've reverted your changes (again). It is useful information that 1) The business model hasn't panned out, 2) that MJ uses infomercials are unlike other VOIP companies, and 3) that a handset is available in addition to a headset. --Az2008 (talk)


 * You haven't explained how the ability to use a headset and the lack of advertisements on are "unique" features, nor how youtube advertisements are relevant. --Swift (talk) 04:58, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. It's an introduction page, so I believe it's useful to contrast the handset with what is commonly available. Remember that this intro may be visited by someone who's never used a VOIP service. But, I think you raise a good point that this should be expanded (not contracted). We'd like to expand this area with more of a comparison to other VOIP services (to be sure this book is NPOV compiant). So, this ties into that goal. (Remember, I just put all this out here as a baseline, to fill out the outline. There's more to come.).
 * Re infomercial. I believe most MJ users would say this is a distinguishing feature of MJ. No other VOIP service advertises to the average, non-technical infomercial audience. The grandmas. This has led to widespread use of MJ. It's also been a negative. The device isn't as ridiculously easy to use as the informercial says. (That element ties into the benefits/criticisms area which I'd like to rework a little and make it clearer that it's kind of a review of commonly-expressed sentiment. Not personal opinion expressed as objective fact.). Anyway, I think MJ is noted for being the first VOIP service to (rightly or wrongly) use infomercials. They'll always be known for that. It was big news among MJ users.
 * I appreciate your perspective as a non-MJ user. There are other MJ users who are participating. Hopefully they'll read this discussion and have some thoughts about how to expand the intro page. I'll work on it too. I just need to recover from getting it all out there. The book is primarily for MJ users (i.e., it's intended to be the user manual that MJ doesn't come with, because it just says "plug it in, and use it."). But, you raise good points about how certain things could be written better for non-MJ users. It's a delicate issue because another wikibooks (admin?) "Panic" raised concerns that the book is too commercial in nature. So, I have a feeling that if we go out of our way to point out what makes MJ different compared to other services, someone will say it's biased and just hawking MJ. Maybe there's a need for a book that's just "VOIP Services" where comparisons can be made.
 * You also removed absolute paths to sub-pages. I was told in the reading room by "darklama" that it's better to use absolute paths. I'm going to follow up to that topic and ask questions. You might want to post there if I don't get to it first.
 * BTW: I appreciate you helping me notice the w: notation to link to other wiki subjects. I'll have to study the editing help further.--Az2008 (talk) 16:40, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Your change in tone does not change the fact that you've reverted all of my edits (e.g. Undoing "swift's" unhelpful contributions). I share Panic's concerns and won't spend any more time on this until it comes up for discussion. --Swift (talk) 18:24, 31 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I apologize. I was frustrated last night when the undo feature didn't seem to work. And, I thought I'd put the link back into the introduction page. And then found for some reason it wasn't there again (and had to put it back in). It was becoming unclear exactly what was missing.
 * The points you've made are helpful. But, I wasn't too jazzed to find content removed by someone who's not even familiar with MagicJack. I can appreciate a non-MJ viewpoint. That's worth discussing. But, removing content without understanding its significance didn't seem helpful.
 * BTW: I did not undo "all" of your edits. I left the citation markers. Although, I disagree with their importance. I mean, you put "citation needed" where it says "extremely low price." But, in the very next section it says the price is $1.67 per month. And, anyone can go to the MJ web site and calculate the price themselves. It's not like it's promising to grow hair.
 * Be that as it may. You and Panic may be right about this being an inappropriate book for wikiBooks. I've already started that discussion with MJ users elsewhere. It may be better to host it on a dedicated wiki. Whatever happens there will be no hard feelings. We just want to help users of MJ with some consistent, collaborative information. Not be all things to all people, or get (too) involved in larger community issues. We're not here to serve Wikibooks. So, that may be a problem if people at Wikibooks feelthey can't let us use the service to help ourselves with a book that *is* a book from our perspective. We'll appreciate having some time to sort it out and see if things get better. --Az2008 (talk) 18:48, 31 December 2008 (UTC)