Talk:Java Programming/Archive 1

Book Structure
I find that, if I'm going to learn a new language, the best way is to look at code. Rather than organize the book like this, you could organize the reference part of the book like this. The book itself might be framed by example, for instance:

Chapter one: Hello world. - Explain everything that goes on in the hello world app, such as the structure of a Java Program, How everything is Object oriented, the main method, the import statement, and calling a method, prinln, reference the OOP way: Class.subclass.method.

Chapter two: Hello back. - Add input to the hello world app. Create an exception for getting bad input.

Chapter three: Your own class.

...etc.

This is what I had planned, to some extent. I'd rather not do a "Hello, World!" app; I think that is the wrong way to teach Java. I'd rather start with something useful - maybe a basic grep-like filter. Either way, the basics of writing a Java program, compiling it, running it would be in the Java Programming/Overview section.

I'm also following the basic structure of Ada Programming, just changing the details (This outline is much simpler, but structurally similar). Programming:Ruby is similar: a basic overview, then introduction to the major language concepts.--djb 01:56, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

It seems like this book is more a hodgepodge of topics than an actual textbook of any kind. I think a more organized structure is desparately needed. Darkxxxxillusion 22:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Learning by Examples
Should the book construct an ever increasingly complex example? I don't like many bookes/references which contain trivial examples ("exception handling has been omitted for brevity..." bah!). But a working application suitable for a book is hard to do well. Will it require too much context and knowledge from previous chapters?

For example, I'm thinking of a simple (home) inventory management system for an example to use throughout the book (other suggestions would be welcome). An end result would be a working example that used most of the Java features discussed in the book -- and did so in a meaningful, non-trivial way -- such as collections, exception handling, patterns, abstractions, interfaces, IO, generics, etc. But it could start with some of the simpler objects when we only need to show instantiation, or basic syntax of a class and the edit/compile/test cycle.--djb 01:56, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

however I find such books with a long project a lot more difficult to follow for any number of reasons Easytiger 21:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

In Database Design for Mere Mortals by Hernandez, he implemented the learning by example approach quite well by limiting the example continuation to the end of the chapter. I think such an approach here would be a good idea. That way it's up to the viewer as to whether or not they want the clarification an example provides. If they've "got it", then they can skip to the next chapter. darkxxxxillusion

Additional sub-page
Please rename and incorporate Transwiki:Packages in Java into this book. Uncle G 14:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)


 * We need to locate more such pages on the Wiki network and incorporate all to create this book as comprehensive as possible. Thanks for the contribution man.
 * - Arunreginald 07:58, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Link to existing textbook
The Thinking in Java textbook is free for unmodified redistribution and it would be helpful to list it as an additional text or at least the reference.

Shiny new TOC
Please add to the bottom of any page lacking it and be sure to keep it up-to-date. --Mikm 00:52, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Note: see below -- use   instead (at the bottom of each page). This template will also add the article to the Category:Java Programming category. --djb 03:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Properties?
I've seen the properties construct in other languages, but never in Java. Unless I am mistaken, the section dealing with properties should be removed.


 * Java indeed has properties. The Java Beans object model has explicit support for properties so that you can edit the properties of a bean in a generic property sheet. java.beans.PropertyDescriptor and java.beans.Introspector are some starting points. The mention of properties in the TOC is in reference to using getter and setter methods (what I like to call "jetters" -:) to access and alter the state of mutable objects. Other languages may well have different meanings for the term "property", but this meaning is how the Java platform (if not the language per se) uses the term. --djb 21:53, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

New Category and Template
I've create a new category, Category:Java Programming and a new template,  , which should be used at the bottom of each topic/module. The template will add the topic to the Category:Java Programming category and also include the   navigation aid. --djb 03:52, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Merging Swing, and JSP
I think this book should focus on giving a general view of Java programming, with some introduction to JSP and to Swing. But I would create a separet book for JSP and Swing. They are big topics by their own and some people may be interested only in jSP, some only in Swing. Ervinn 03:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Why not put it all in one big book? As near as I can tell in the Wikibooks projects, more harm than good comes of splitting topics up too much. One programming language should get one book. JSP and Swing are not just semi-related to Java, but part of it. If someone is interested in that topic, then they can come to the Java book first, and then to the section on what they want. We aren't limited by paper constraints, so as long as it's Java, the bigger (and well-written), the better. - Darkxxxxillusion
 * I agree with Darkxxxxillusion on that. I think we should add everything and anything about Java in this book. What we can then do is to device learning paths for users in a How to use this book section where the user would be given options how to tread throughout the chapters in this book to get the knowledge relevant to his/her search. This system is implemented in most Dietel & Dietel and O'Reilly Media books. - Arunreginald 14:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Agree, to merge the books try to contact the other books communities and placing the merge tag first on the talk and if no response is given in the book's main page, if you need to merge the book you may ask help from the admin. Darklama, he has been helping with some merges into the C++ Programming book and is active.--Panic 03:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
 * To my knowledge those two JSP and Swing books have been already merged into Java Programming. Those two books had introductory information about JSP and Swing. The question now is whether expend on those subjects here in this book, or start new books. Ervinn 15:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Orphans
These pages are not linked to from anywhere in this book:


 * 1) Java:Collections
 * 2) Java Programming/Advanced Topics
 * 3) Java Programming/Basic Concepts
 * 4) Java Programming/Class Library
 * 5) Java Programming/Class Structure
 * 6) Java Programming/Deploying Java
 * 7) Java Programming/Developing Java
 * 8) Java Programming/JSP/Custom JSP tags
 * 9) Java Programming/Modifiers and Access Control
 * 10) Java Programming/Object Model
 * 11) Java Programming/Strings
 * 12) Java Programming/Using Java
 * 13) Java Programming/Struts/Struts Tag Library
 * 14) Java:Collections

Please either incorporate them into the text or mark them for deletion by typing on each page. Thanks! --hagindaz 23:19, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Just moved a page from the old C++ book (Programming in C -/- -/-) to Java Programming/Design_Patterns, it has some usefully content, similar page exist on the C++ book C++ Programming/Design Patterns Introduction fill free to get some more info from there (remember that wikibooks request that any lengthy use of content from other books needs a special reference as per GFDL.)--Panic 23:37, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

No fun to read
This book certainly is no fun to read. Except for the techno-jargon and the code-babel, this book merely serves fit for 'How to write a book on Wikibooks that readers would hate to read?'. No, seriously, this book needs serious lifting so as to attract readers to actually get glued to the text. So, has anyone good ideas of making the text more appealing to readers? - Arunreginald 05:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * To start with one, I would suggest a simple Tips and tricks box that gives readers tips about a certain topic. And that definitions be embedded into the . Makes the text more readable. ;) See how inclusion of   made this page look more interesting to read. - Arunreginald 05:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I personally don't like the PTPBox, the books are intended to be printed in the future that construct can be fun to have in a web resource but in hardcopy (paper) it's ugly and does consume some more ink :) check the C++ Programming we use the.

I must say that this is may opinion as a Wikibooks user, I'm not contributing to the Java book so I don't consider myself part of this book community.--Panic 02:58, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

PS: If some one has the time please think about populating the Computer_programming table with the missing Java information.

SVG'd images
I've started SVG-ifying a few of the UML diagrams and wanted feedback on the style before I keep going. images here Mikm 22:36, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Help
Hello! I have some considerable Java experience so I would really like to help, but I've never contributed to WikiBooks before. So:
 * 1) Tell me if there are things that I should start with, or I will just do things randomly.
 * 2) I've never written anything serious before, and because English is not my native language it is far from perfect. Can I get any help in reviewing what I write?
 * 3) Tell me if I do things wrongly or silly, as I said, I am new.

Enjoy! :) Untrots 22:42, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

How to think Like a Computer Scientist - Java Edition
Hi People,

would someone be interested to expand the [How to think like a Computer Scientist - Java Verion http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkapjava/] Book. Or incorporate all its Text into this Wikibook. I used it to start with Java programming and it's a really good Book (licensed under GNU FDL), but some things are a little bit outdated and some are too general (what is the purpose of that book, but which can probably be expanded here). - Horrendus 13:42, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Operators
Where are operators discussed?

how to write Application Exception
How to write an Application specific Exception for a particular Application

yet another opinion on how to teach Java
"we do need a new way to teach java in small steps." --70.130.47.149 00:57, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

What a book requires to be a featured book?
For the past weeks I having been reading through some featured books on Wikibooks and almost all the books that I went through had to-some-extent the same characteristics. Following are what I think we should implement with this book as well.


 * A short table of content, unlike the one we have. I came up with an idea of a short and concise table of contents that is viewable now.
 * A sub-page navigation system amongst sections in a chapter. Am currently working on it.
 * Lots and lots of images.

If you'd like to add more FB characteristics, please feel free to express. Thanks - Arun Reginald 04:16, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Organize the book to sections & create navigations
I started adding navigation links to each page to the right hand side. That box on the right hand side is for navigating the pages that belongs to a topic. The link on the top of the box will go to the main page of that topic. I also started to add navigation boxes for each topic's main page that is on the left hand side of the topic's main page. That can be used to navigate through the main pages of each topic that belongs to a topic section.

Then topics are grouped together to a topic section. Currently there are three main sections:
 * Beginners Topics section
 * User Interface Topics section
 * Advanced Topics section

The idea is that each section can be used as a separate mini book in the main Java Programming book. This will help to extend the book when new features and/or technologies are invented.

I was thinking that this Java Programming book would be best used as a reference book, since lots of other good books are already exist, and there is no one book that contains information about everything. So the focus would be to add as much accurate information about Java & its related technologies as possible, and also the ease of navigation is important. Ervinn 13:26, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Where to put HttpClient?
I would like to write a page about using Apache's HttpClient library, but I'm not sure where it should go. Could someone who is more involved with this book please help? Thanks! &mdash; Sam Wilson (Australia) 23:35, 31 October 2007 (UTC)