Talk:Japanese/Kana chart

Incomplete
This chart is incomplete. It is missing certain compound characters and voiced characters. - 67.169.44.125
 * Could you point out which ones? - Sik0fewl 16:38, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * According to one of the training programs Kye and wi for example are used. It also lists different Romaji transliterations of the voiced form of chi, namely dzi in stead of ji. The last character of katakana ローマ字 (Romaji) isn't even listed at all. I would say this table needs some work. I suggest you take a look at Katakana, which lists several updates to this table. Redge 13:55, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
 * "Used" is a relative term. "wi" and "we" are occasionally used for their old-fashioned look, and of course appear in older literature. Not sure what you mean about "kye".
 * You won't find 字 in the table because it's kanji, not katakana.
 * You're right, the missing "foreign sound" katakana should be added.
 * There are several Romanization conventions, and we shouldn't try to cram them all into one table. The contributors to this wikibook have adopted a convention that they judged to be best.
 * -ToothingLummox 08:25, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Perhaps it is simply a matter of Slime Forrest and this wikibook using different standards, but it's frustrating of having to decide between the lessons you learn here and the ones rehearsed in Slime Forrest. Anyway, Forrest lists キエ as kye in stead of ki e, is what I ment. Excuse me for jumping to conclusions here. Redge 09:10, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I tried the game just a few minutes but it seems that I don't have enough time to find (nor patience to wait for it) キエ as kye. Probably it's キェ (small ェ, not large エ). Er..., if the game uses "kye" for キエ (not キェ), it's simply wrong. キエ is "kie".
 * Although this is my personal feeling, I don't think it's a good idea to practice *typing* ヰ and ヱ so many times (even in a few minutes play, I was made to type them several times). If you are able to read them, that's enough. In what occasion do you need to type them? At least I've hardly used them. Perhaps just two or three times, including now. In fact, they are so rarely used that the old version of ATOK I use did not know "wi" and "we" for ヰ and ヱ, thus I had to find them from character table it includes (ATOK is one of Romaji to Kanji converters; it's possible newer versions know them). Well, if you're going to study Japanese classic literature, the ability might be useful, but if not... - Marsian / talk 10:12, 20 October 2005 (UTC) mod. Marsian / talk 10:34, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Bolded sounds
Why are some of the letters (both Katakana and Hiragana) for certain sounds bolded?
 * Your question is answered in the notes accompanying the table. Redge 13:55, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Breaking up the girl
I really like this table, but how about revamping it still. I'm unsure about the benefit of listing the kana together and find the romaji stands out too much with it in bold. It still needs some distinction but the kana in bold might not render very well for everyone. --Swift (talk) 08:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


 * The reasoning to have the kana in bold was ridiculous. This is a kana chart and should be used as a reference, and not as a tutorial.  This could go into the actual hiragana/katakana pages, where the information is easily assimilated than in this crowded table.


 * I'm not sure how to revise the chart other than making two separate charts. --Retropunk (talk) 19:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


 * "The reasoning ... was ridiculous." Ouch. I apologise for failing seeing things the same way as you do. Perhaps we can try to see where the other is coming from before calling things ridiculous?
 * I would sincerely be interested in learning for what sort of situations such a reference would be of great use. Since all seem agreed that learning the syllabaries should be one of the first steps, I'd expect that rather than needing to look up the sound to find the kana character, the student might on occasion wish to find which sound a character makes. In such cases, highlighting the character being looked for would make sense.
 * I might experiment with splitting these tables up on seperate pages and then just transcluding them here. --Swift (talk) 17:01, 26 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Roomaji is a poor reference to show something is pronounced. This chart shouldn't be used as such.  It should be used as a lookup/reference to remind the student on the consonant+vowel, y-medial compound, and other special characters.  It should not be used as a tutorial.
 * Furthermore, this chart shouldn't be making special notes on how often a word starts with characters and/or how often the character is used within the language's vocabulary. This information should be used within other means.  Jamming too many concepts onto this chart is going to ruin its use.  --Retropunk (talk) 00:27, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that romaji is a poor reference to show pronunciation. I don't think I was arguing otherwise.
 * I agree that the table shouldn't be intended as a tutorial. I didn't suggest that it be one.
 * I simply asked in which situations a student might wish to refer to a table indexed by romaji, given that learning the syllabaries would be one of the first steps. --Swift (talk) 15:23, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
 * My biggest problem isn't the roomaji. I was just stating that roomaji isn't a good source to show a sound of a kana character.  My problem is the combination of bolding the roomaji and the kana.  The former to help the user focus on the roomaji characters and the latter to illustrate infrequent characters.  The latter is not needed.  It could go elsewhere, like individual kana pages. --Retropunk (talk) 17:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)