Talk:Issues in Interdisciplinarity 2020-21/Truth in virginity

Outline 1
Hello everyone, this is an outline I drafted.

Introduction
Basic definitionof truth Three different approaches totruth
 * Positivist
 * Phenomenological
 * Constructivist

Virginity: the meaning of virginity in each discipline is the reflection of the significance attached to it Biology – simply a biological phenomenon – alteration of organs Anthropology – contingent on different cultures and religion Gender Studies – reflection of the patriarchal heteronormative society

Biology
Definition of virginity, how it is described/explained – positivist approach Limitation – only focuses on the hymen BUT
 * Not everyone has one
 * Induces only one form of sexuality (heteronormative - only considers heterosexual sex and penetration)
 * Result in an interpretation of virginity that is focused on the men's experience

Virginity tests?? (Illegal in most countries now)

Gender Studies
The principle of virginity is not just biological, it’s the reflection of the domination of men in our society, the oppressive system that limits and judges’ women’s sexuality - Pressure on women to stay virgin because corresponds with ‘purity’ - Considered as“valuable” - Sexual desire/freedom repressed - Sexuality is a spectrum (lesbianism - doesn't necesseraly involve a penetration, so questions the validity of the biological definition)

Anthropology
The value and meaning of virginity are dependent on each culture, tradition, sexual fredoom of women in that country and interpretation of sexual intercourse. The meaning in constructed (constructivist approach) - Talk about excision?? - Analyse the role of religion?

Conclusion
Tensions between the disciplines biology doesn't consider the social implications of virginity, gender studies only analyses it through the prism of patriachy, anthropology puts more emphasis on the cultural traditions/implications.

-- Zoeka Villemin

outline 2
here is the second outline we talked about !

Introduction
Case study showing why this subject is interesting and why is it a concern ? Here I would like if we could fin an example to show that virginity is a flaming topic and that it brings out tensions which could explained that we chose this as an interesting and actual topic ? Definition of truth and what do we mean as truth in virginity : the truth behind the meaning of the word and what we mean when we say "virginity" but also that it is a concept that reveals a truth on the society and its structure maybe ? Say that we will talk about FEMALE virginity almost exclusively

Positivist
Biology : Definition of virginity, how it is described/explained in scientific terms : simply a biological phenomenon – alteration of organs The theory that it is the loss of the hymen but also that it is easily negated because not everyone has one etc and that u can loose it differently, but influence of biology on cultures and anthropology, as the only evidence ? Virginity tests?? (Illegal in most countries now) Induces only one form of sexuality (heteronormative–only considers heterosexual sex and penetration, maybe talk about tampons and the fact that gynaecologists are not allowed to examine you if you are a virgin which shows how biology influenced minds on what is being a virgin or not)

Phenomenological

 * sexual intercourses

The idea that you loose your virginity when you have sexual intercourses but that sexual intecourses is a spectrum as showed by the lesbian combat and maybe we can contrast this with the law and definition that contrast with what we expect where sexual harassment is without penetration and rape is with, even though it is a spectrum ? gender studies that shows a male gaze (if we can say gaze) on what is sexual intecourses The principle of virginity is not just biological, it’s the reflection of the domination of men in our society, the oppressive system that limits and judges women’s sexuality. Systematic patriarchal structure of our society

Constructivist

 * gender studies and anthropology

Because we showed that it was Spectrum, than everyone can think what they want and have their own truth open virginity but it is not that easy because we are largely influenced by cultural and social traditions and expectations as female’s virginity in lots of cultures is a valuable product + religion and pressure on women that don’t really have the possibility to define it how they want, we think we have the choice but not really because traditions and history forced us to think that way while making us think it was our decision ? Maybe we can find a philosopher who talked about this idea that we are not master of our decisions and of our minds kinda ? The value and meaning of virginity are dependent on each culture. The meaning in constructed (constructivist approach) Analyse the role of religion?

Conclusion
saying that the biological positivist approach is almost certainly wrong and that it is a spectrum but that society Is constructed this "black or white" assumption on virginity. We can finish by opening the topic and introducing the idea that male virginity isn’t to be discussed because firstly they’re isn’t a scientific way to find out (as ppl think they do during the first intercourse when they see if the women bleeds or doesn’t, which is a bad assumption because it doesn’t happen to anyone and pressure women who sometimes reforged to cut themselves during the act to make it look like it) and secondly because it is not as valuable and there isn’t a history that gives it importance (marriages and stuff) all of this because of the patriarcal structure of our society : virginity represents a completely different pressure for men as it is more an envy of loosing it ?

Introduction
Hey so as we talked in the tutorial, it would be good if we explain in the introduction why we don't talk about men's sexuality/virginity. I found this article online that discusses women and men's relation to sexuality. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00224490109552080?needAccess=true. It explains how in the 19th century, virignity was associated with purity and was the "necessary state for an unmaried woman". This mentality has obvisoulsy evolved, especially since the 1960s where more and more woman started to engage in sexual intercourse with partners that did not plan to marry. Obviously it needs the argument needs to be more developped but I thought the article was interesting. It alos explores the ambiguity around the definition of sex and loss of virginity (is it just penetration or could other sexual activities be considered as determining the loss of virginity)

I think my point is not very clear. What I mean is that this article provides a good reference in shwoing that throughout history there as been much more debate around the virginity of women (assumptions of purity, expectation of virignity before marriage, slut-shaming...) and very little/none for boys, which is why we are not discssing the latter.

-- Zoeka Villemin

Outline 2
Thank you for your outline Toscane. I have started to write under the second paragraph (phenomenological) for Gender studies. However, I believe that gender studies have more of constructivist approach to truth. I have to make more research but I think that there is consensus among some gender studies scholars that gender is a social construct. This is why I think that we should use my outline (Biology, Gender Studies, Anthropology). Alternatively, we can compromise and divide the paragraphs between positivist (biology) and constructivist (gender studies, anthropology). Tell me what you think.

-- Zoeka Villemin

Gender Studies paragraph
This is what I am planning to talk about in my paragraph. Is it getting in the way of someone else's topic? Virgin = can be defined as one that never had sex

But what is sex? Penetrative sex – heterosexual sex, limited, only concerns part of the population, as it excludes other sexual activities performed by different individuals with different sexualities (Anal, Oral and other sexual activities. Raises the question of which practices have the ability to take away virginity?

(maybe this should be introduced at the end of the biology paragraph just to have more of a transition between the two)

Women’s sexuality has traditionally been restrained and not encouraged – leads to "slut shaming" (I would probably used a more formal word if one exists). - Women engaging in a sexual encouter with someone that is not a "serious partner" - violates the gender-based expectation that she should engage in sexual relationships only when they in love or when there is intimacy Means of controlling women’s sexuality and reproduction – men assert their authority - "Historically, virginity was linked to controlling women’s bodies—through monitoring fertility or paternal ownership—and within this system, women’s bodies were (and are) presented as products for consumption, tools for labor, and a conduit for the continuity of a bloodline" (d'Avignon 2016).

Also, these all just ideas I need more research, not everything is accurate or should be taken as "true". This is just what I planning on researching.

-- Zoeka Villemin

Positivist paragraph
Hello Toscane, thank you for your paragraph. I think that at the end you could add - capable of taking one's virginity, to specify your argument a little more. You could also include a reference to the article I linked before, where you can fin quatitative data on the topic. Indeed, there is a paragraph where they give statistical evidence as to what is considered seuxal activity capable of taking one's virginity among young Americans.

-- Zoeka Villemin

Constructivist paragraph
Hey everyone, here is my part. If you think anything is too much or missing, let me know

There is no cross-cultural, universal definition of virginity, and I’ll start with a quote of Mauss, who, in Gender and the Meaning of Virginity Loss in the Contemporary United States, says: “I bracket (or decline to consider) the physiological definition of virginity loss so as to draw explicit attention to the diverse meanings young men attach to the transition and to show how these meaning are socially created”. Here, he comes completely off the physiological virginity loss concept to get closer to the social meaning it has, and to prove how socially constructed it is, and that is exactly how constructivist Anthropologists approach gender and virginity.

As Mauss argues, body phenomena are frequently used as a way to symbolize wider society specialty in relation to ritual and myth. In a society still dominated mostly by men, virginity is the perfect body phenomena example. “One is not born, but rather become a woman”, saying that, Simone de Beauvoir denies the whole biological part of gender, and asserts that the gender is socially constructed. So is virginity, depending on many factors, and there have been numerous ethnographic reports that touch upon virginity in relation to various forms of social organization from marriage, to kinship, to caste systems.

In defining virginity in today’s western society, people insist and emphasis on the loss of the hymen, which would be relied to a woman’s virginity loss, just like blood and pain. But there are countless markers of virginity for women: from the constitution of her urine to the feel of her breast. The Zulus, an Nguni ethnic group in Southern Africa, believe that the virginity of a woman can be defined by her taut muscle tone. Which one of these statements is right? No one can say.

In monotheists religions, which constitute a consequent part of the world’s culture, a primary importance is given to virginity, particularly for women: in Islamic culture, staying a virgin, ‘saving their hymen’ for women until the wedding night is very important. In the Catholic religion, Marie, the mother of Jesus, is praised for staying a virgin.

Today, the importance given to the sexual education changes gradually, and, admitting that virginity is entirely socially constructed, a new way to educate young men and women emerge. For example, the Swedish Association for Sexuality Education, which attempts to redefine virginity in order to requalify concepts of prestige and purity among young people, according them more confidence about their choices.