Talk:Indonesian

Indonesian and Malay
Maybe this book should be presented as Indonesian and Malay? If you don't have time to add notes for where Malay is different, somebody else might do it.


 * Sure thing. --Roby Joehanes 21:55, 22 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I disagree. For one, I don't know where they differ, but also, they are different languages. Sure, there's a high degree of mutual understanding between speakers of the language, but they should be different books.

If the people writing the Malay one want to copy and paste this one with minor alterations then they can feel free, but they shouldn't be merged. Mr john 14:21, 2 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I also disagree - they are significantly different. I think of it as being like someone from London and someone from Scotland speaking in a Scots-influenced English. (I'm not trying to say which is which - just that there's differences in accent and vocab). Note that Indonesian has a lot of Dutch words that don't occur in Malay, and Malay has more English influence. See the Wikipedia article Differences between Malay and Indonesian (and that could be linked from this Wikibook, rather than duplicating the work).


 * I like the idea, though, of having notes on where Malay differs, in the text or in a section at the end of the page; also of this book copying and modifying pages to and from Malay, where appropriate. Perhaps there could be a template used temporarily at the top of a Malay page, saying something like "This page has been copied from the Indonesian Wikibook, and may need further changes to reflect Malay usage." Or the reverse if copied from the Malay to the Indonesian Wikibook. --Singkong2005 01:30, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

How can I say it in Indonesian language?
How can I say " How was the school? " in Indonesian language?

thank you,

jameelhy@yahoo.com

It's probably too late and I can't tell when you made the edit because you didn't sign your post, but it's bagaimana sekolahnya? although, due to Indonesian's lack of tenses this could mean "how is the school?" as well. Mr john 14:21, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a good book
Thank you for this nice project. -- 22:40, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Just a thought
I feel that the "ahli" section of this page concentrate too much on "bahasa gaul" instead of the formal and more advanced "Bahasa Indonesia." It should include a more complex vocabulary than those in the "beginner section" Thanks

I agree, but I would like to think that my particular area of expertise is "bahasa gaul" so that's what I wrote lessons on. It's not concentrated on "bahasa gaul" for any reason other than no one else has written any lessons for it yet. It's a work in progress. If you have specific requests for lessons then post them here and I'll see what I can do. Thanks, Mr john 08:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Advanced vocab
I've been doing a web search for an advanced vocabulary list with no luck. Does anyone know a good link? Such a link would also be useful as an "external link" or "additional resource" for an "advanced" page in this Wikibook.

Memorising lists of words suits my style of learning (I use mnemonics - but of course I also need to back it up with practice).

I'm at the stage where I can read a newspaper or book without too much difficulty, but there's still a few words per article or page that I don't understand. Making my own lists as I go works okay, but a ready made vocab list would be more efficient. Memorising words from a dictionary is probably going to give me a lot of rarely used words (and all of them starting with "A"...!)

For the moment though, I do appreciate the pages on informal use from Mr John. --Singkong2005 01:55, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I found a site with some tips on mnemonics - but only two, and at a very basic level. Teacher Resource - Penyelamatan binatang

The tips, on one of the linked PDFs, are:
 * Many students mix up the numbers 4 and 6 (empat and enam) - but maybe remembering that you 'pat' a dog which has four legs will help. 
 * How can you remember the meanings of kanan and kiri (right and left)? Perhaps simply that kanan and right both have five letters; and kiri and left both have four.
 * These could be rewritten and included in a mnemonics page, e.g. Indonesian/Mnemonics - I don't know a good translation for mnemonics, unless we use cara penghafalan or cara menghafalkan kata. --Singkong2005 04:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm starting a page here: Indonesian/Adding vocabulary with word association - it probably needs a better name, and it's very basic, but it's a start. --Singkong2005 05:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliments, I'm glad the articles are of interest. If you have any other areas of slang you'd like articles on, let me know. On the subject of vocab lists, I'm not sure how useful they are without the context of an article... If you find an online article that you think is a good example (that we're allowed to use) I'd be happy to list the difficult and interesting words, provide some commentary on the article and maybe have some comprehension questions at the end... Would that be more useful than just having parallel translations?Mr john 08:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Can we use other free (as in beer) sites as part of a curriculum?
A page on the above Tasmanian Department of Education site, Learning Objects, has some free, useful resources for beginners & high school students. (Graphics based, with very slow, clear pronunciation... rather formal (Kalau bepergian?? I never heard the word bepergian in 2 years in Indo - only pergi), but that's standard for Indonesian lessons in Australia, I find.)

Resources like these which are free (as in beer) but not open-source are good for giving inspiration - no controversy, I think. I think they are also good for linking from the modules, and even using as part of the curriculum - at least until we have developed better resources here. This would consist of linking from a Wikibooks page, not replicating or infringeing copyright in any way.

Would this conflict with Wikibooks policies? --Singkong2005 04:20, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I asked this at the the Staff lounge and it seems that Wikiversity encourages this practice, and there doesn't seem to be a policy against it in Wikibooks (perhaps making it clear that that we're not endorsing the external link). --Singkong2005 05:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Audiobook (Pimsleur?)
This wikibook is a great effort to provide instructional tools in learning Bahasa Indonesia. It would be great if there is an accompanying audio instruction.

Recently I've been using Pimsleur methods to learn spanish, and I find it very good. If anyone is an expert in liguistic and language instructional methods, and is interested in doing Pimsleur audio on Indonesian language, I'd be delighted to help to read out the phrases, since I'm an indonesian native speaker. However, I can't be the one who organize and edit the audio because I don't have experience in language teaching methods. Besides, I think "pimsleur method" itself is not copyrighted (am I correct) although there are pimsleur branded instructional recordings released by Simon and Schuster. Hence I'd think it's possible to replicate the method and record our own instructional recordings in order to make language instruction more accessible (currently the Simon and Schuster Pimsleur is really expensive!).

Chaerani 01:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Childrens' songs
I like this section. I'm glad to see the wikibook has progressed since I last looked at it. I'll add a few songs soon. As far as I know most childrens' songs are open source. It could be interesting to add some popular songs and comment on the lyrics there, but I'm not sure if we'd be violating copyright... Does anyone want to weigh in on this?

Incidentally, I have no idea how to add audio to these pages... If someone does work out how to do it I could record some of the childrens' songs on guitar and post them...  I'd rather not sing them though if someone wants to go a wikollaboration. Mr john 08:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * There are some good recording guidelines for the Spoken Wikipedia that you can look at. Then just upload to Wikimedia Commons or Wikibooks using the "Upload file" link in the Toolbox on the sidebar (must be logged in). Have a look at Chinese/Lesson_1 to see how I linked to audio from within the lessons. I wouldn't worry of you can only provide the guitar. Using Audacity it's easy to splice audio together, so someone could add their singing voice later on. - Everlong 10:19, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

history of indonesia & indonesian leaders
In 1602 the Dutch established the Dutch East India Company (VOC) and became the dominant European power. Following bankruptcy, the VOC was formally dissolved in 1800, and the government of the Netherlands established the Dutch East Indies as a nationalized colony.

For most of the colonial period, Dutch control over these territories was tenuous; only in the early 20th century did Dutch dominance extend to what was to become Indonesia's current boundaries. The Japanese invasion and subsequent occupation during WWII ended Dutch rule, and encouraged the previously suppressed Indonesian independence movement. Two days after the surrender of Japan in August 1945, Sukarno, an influential nationalist leader, declared independence and was appointed president. The Netherlands tried to reestablish their rule, and a bitter armed and diplomatic struggle ended in December 1949, when in the face of international pressure, the Dutch formally recognized Indonesian independence.

Sukarno moved from democracy towards authoritarianism, and maintained his power base by balancing the opposing forces of the Military, Islam, and the Communist Party of Indonesia. An attempted coup on 30 September 1965 was countered by the army, who led a violent anti-communist purge, during which the PKI was blamed for the coup and effectively destroyed. At least half a million "communists" were slaughtered. The head of the military, General Suharto, out-manoeuvred the politically weakened Sukarno, and was formally appointed president in March 1968. Official President Sukarno was deposed & placed under home arrest & surveillance until he died. Suharto's New Order administration was supported by the US government, and encouraged foreign investment in Indonesia, which was a major factor in the subsequent three decades of substantial economic growth.

Suharto knew what was going on but did not stop the slaughter of "communists" thus making him complicit in the killings. United States, UK, Australia were also complicit in the slaughter. CIA delivered all sorts of information to the communist killers because united states was afraid more asian countries will become communists during cold war era. Armed forces leaders like Sarwo Edhie Wibowo & death squad leaders like Anwar Congo, Adi Zulkadry, Safit Pardede thought they were killing the communists just for fun. In 2015, international tribunal (court) ruled that Indonesia as a country bears responsibility for the slaughter.

In 1997 and 1998, however, Indonesia was the country hardest hit by the East Asian Financial Crisis.This increased popular discontent with the New Order and led to popular protests. Suharto resigned on 21 May 1998. In 1999, East Timor voted to secede from Indonesia, after a twenty-five-year occupation, which was marked by international condemnation of repression and human rights abuses. The Reformasi era following Suharto's resignation, has led to a strengthening of democratic processes, including a regional autonomy program, and the first direct presidential election in 2004. Political and economic instability, social unrest, corruption, and terrorism have slowed progress. Although relations among different religious and ethnic groups are largely harmonious, acute sectarian discontent and violence remain problems in some areas. A political settlement to an armed separatist conflict in Aceh was achieved in 2005.