Talk:Hungarian/Lesson 1

Untitled
Can you get me some help on this table? FerKo 09:26, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

room for joint project
Are you still around? (cur) (last) 13:20, 30 August 2005 81.182.180.126 (→ FerKo 10:09, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

I am! I think a present tense lesson would be the way to go, but proper pronunciation via audio clips is a big priority too. --ErikG 19:29, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Now I recommend you go along with the grammar and I am going to supply the audio of your written illustrations (examples, Hungarian words as they pop up, etc.). I myself would like to present another line - to be tested for the first time here - working your way from simple words by expansion and by stimulus-response pairs. For example:

The first two words to learn:

van and nincs

Statements and questions with van: two word long three word long Answers to the same

References to explanations/charts and tables on the endings, rules of formation, etc.

I must go now, ll be back in the evening

to be ellaborated
Van

The simplest sentence possible. Also, elliptical. See below.

Meaning and usage:

As a statement: there is.

Listen

As in a question: (is)

Listen

As an aswer to a question.

Listen

Example:

Van pénzed? (Have you got some money on you?) Van. (Yes, I have.)

Pénz (money) ed posessive tag

Produce more of this kind.

Use:

Lakás (flat), család (family), ház (house), autó (car)

Have you got a flat?

Hol van? (Where is it/she/he?) Itt van. Here it is. It is here.

Mi van? (What is up?) Semmi. (Nothing)

Mi van ma? Hétfő. (Monday)

See list of words: Days of the week, wh questionwords (mikor, hol, ki, mi, hogy, miért, merre, meddig, etc.)

participles: nyitva, zárva, kíírva, megadva,

Pronunciation
I was looking at the pronunciation part of this lesson and I noticed that your imitated pronunciation system is quite approximate. For example: the "u" in 'dune' does not sound like the "u" in french (as it should be pronounced). Another example: When I hear the words 'fur' and 'feu' and compare them, they do not sound the same to me.

I recommend you look to your pronunciation table critically, so people can learn hungarian with a reasonable accent. You could argue that the audio samples can help people do that, but I have experienced that people often cannot get their pronunciation right, even though they have heard hours of correct pronunciation.


 * Comparing sounds in two different languages can't be more than approximation. But it's better than nothing. --Sourcerror 18:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Reorganization
I've moved a lot of stuff around. Stuff from the home page I've brought into this lesson. I also reorganised to have one table with the letters and sounds rather than 2 - thought it was more user-friendly. I've added a column for IPA pronunciation - that's the standard, definitive way to show pronunciation. I'll add in the symbols when I've got some more enthusiasm.

I've put my ideas for the overall project onto the home talk page.

I wouldn't teach subject pronouns at this early stage - they aren't even required in Hungarian. But I didn't want to delete what someone else had done. Gailtb 00:49, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I disagree. Even if you don't say the pronouns, they're there a hidden way, and can come back anytime. For verb conjugation it's essential. My concern is that we shouldn't teach numbers in lesson2, only after verb conjugation and interrogatives. --Sourcerror 20:46, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm a native Hungarian speaker and my English is far from perfect, but isn't Hungarian 'dz' similar to 'z' in 'zigzag'?

Easier access to audio files needed?
I am definately not a computer whiz, and as such, have a difficult time trying to play the audio files. I have tried both direct "left-clicking" (IE says "unknown file type") and right-clicking and saving it first. Maybe some helpful hints on use would be necessary?


 * Winamp can play it. Sourcerror 15:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Need audio?
If you think more audio would be good I could make some, but I don't know to who should I send them... (I'm Hungarian) --gorilla 20:44, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

More (audio) Hungarian
When will the third lesson be added? And is anybody going to provide the book with corresponding audio files? Hungarian pronunciation is hard after all.

Kissing
From the text: "Hungarians greet each other by kiss on each cheek..." No, that's not true in this form. And it can be misleading. Family member often do kiss each other on each cheek. But it's not a custom in every family. Often males don't kiss at all, don't kiss males even if they are relatives. Males never kiss males if they are not ralatives, unless they are very-very-very good friends and quite felxible in social roles. In many families males kiss females, and females kiss males and females. In many families children kiss everyone, and in no other relation kiss is given. Kiss on the cheek is frequent in some teenager subgruops, while in others it isn't. In formal adult relations it is very rare, practically you can never see it. In some very small rural subgroups even kiss on the lips is accepted amongst realtives.

So I wouldn't say it so simply: "Hungarians greet each other by kiss on each cheek..." If you are not Hungarian and you come to Hungary it is quite all right if you never do it, unless someone offers it. If someone offers it, it is polite to accept it and return it at the same time.

A Hungarian

---

Err... Hungarian males do kiss each other on the cheek, but it is less common these days. (Yes, I do mean straight males.) It's much rarer now but it is still socially acceptable. Of course, you do need to know the other person.

Another Hungarian.

--195.38.126.26 (discuss) 12:55, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

cultural notes
Hi, I added some cultural notes and made some minor edits on the existing ones - in order to avoid any conflicts if you come here. The source for them is my being a native.Svenskafan 20:57, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

voice samples
Hi, I created some voice samples for you in .wav, which you can download here: http://www.angelfire.com/ct3/hobbylanc/ It's about the greetings. I reedited the site already at the greetings, so you just have to format the soundfiles into .ogg and upload it to the commons or wherever. Svenskafan 18:17, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Vowel harmony
I edited the vowel harmony section as 80.98.57.185, I just wasn't logged in. I'm not sure whether round/slit mouth-shaped vowels are the best translations of "ajakréses" and "ajakkerekítéses".

Remélem, hogy a slit mouth-t senki sem sem pinaszájúnak fordítja :)

Csak azt tudnám, hogy miért is beszélünk angolul ... hiszen ha valaki nem tud magyarul az ne szerkessze a cikket/könyvet ... na mindegy ....... megvan: hagyományból.

--Sourcerror 17:22, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The combination of cz
How do you pronounce "cz", as in the name of Sándor Ferenczi? Is it as if the name were "Ferenci"? Or maybe "Ferencsi"? Thanks in advance, Eldad (talk) 23:51, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, "cz" is pronounced as "c". This combination occures in older names and is an older writing form. The pronunciacions of Ferenczi and Ferenci are the same. Best, A native 88.66.41.90 (talk) 22:49, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Miklos
Miklos is not Michael, it is Nicholas. Mihaly is for Michael Compactforever (talk) 09:18, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Rough Pronunciation Guide and Greetings
I think the Rough Pronunciation Guide in this lesson is a bit too rough, isn't it? I'm afraid that someone may pronounce [eː] like the Hungarian word éj, not é, as it should be. I might be a bit too cautious about this, but nevertheless, I think we should add to the guide that [eː] is not a diphthong, so that no one may get confused. Also, I think that the use of helló as in English (i. e. when you meet someone) is as common as the use of it when you want to say "goodbye". So I think it's not important to say that helló is more frequently used as saying goodbye than as a word for greeting. - Vargamate (talk) 18:21, 26 November 2009 (UTC)