Talk:Guitar/Buying an Amplifier

needs some technical improvements e.g. ohmage = impedance

I reworked the structure of the page, most notably moving the information about different types of amps to the top. I think it improves the flow of the article, because it gives readers the general information about what you can buy, before it gets into the "What Makes a Good Amp?" section. --NickPenguin 21:24, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

"Solid State While it is debatable when solid state amps became most popular, typically it is associated with a hard rock sound. Some attribute this to Eddie Van Helen and his modified Marshall, which allow him to have more gain, and deliver a more in-your-face tone and volume when overdriven."
 * EVH uses the approach of capturing the output of whole tube amplifier with a dummy speaker load, and then re-amplifying the signal with solid state. Solid state which has monstrous wattage not seen in audio tube amps. (Thereby blowing away the myth that a tube amp's output stage has to interact directly with the speaker for "legit" tone.)24.85.131.247 (discuss) 17:20, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Are you crazy? EVH isn't ss sound! And hard rock/heavy metal are strictly TUBE sounds!!! Stop this bullshit.
 * Yes, exactly! If I had a dime for every time I heard nonsense like "tubes are for organic blues and classic rock music I like, and SS is only for that ultra clean jazz, or metal."  Metal players are among some of the most demanding "tone hounds". Great metal sounds is the most difficult guitar tone to get "right" in some way, whether live or recorded. The sound is extremely important to the music, and it has to sound huge and to have impact, without being unpleasant. It has to carry the meaning "I am nasty", but the sound cannot be nasty on the ears. It actually has to be beautiful. Dynamic, shimmering, fire-breathing, etc. People who cannot distinguish the beauties in metal guitar sound and think it's all just hard clipping shouldn't make comments about sound, period. 24.85.131.247 (discuss) 17:20, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Some suggestions for this chapter
This chapter on amps is full of relevant information. I'm going to remove repeated material and see if I can make it more concise. I'll place anything I remove here. It needs general formatting; images, bullets and headings may need to be reworked. The wattage descriptions are great but I'm not too sure about the > sign in front of every wattage figure. This chapter is supposed to be a buying guide but there's little actual buying advice; it comes across as a technical breakdown of the different types of amps. As a buying guide it should include advice and tips; every guitarist who wishes to play in a band should avoid practice amps (the little 5 watt amps are essentially useless in band situations). Also I think the advice about changing tubes every 1 to 4 years may actually be quite costly. It might also be good to point out that Line 6 amps are modelled patches like the Guitar Rig software and though the benefits of modelling are real it does come at a price. Most onboard amp effects are not as good as dedicated rack units. A further point needs to made about Fender Bassman amps which despite the name has for decades proved one of the most popular amps for guitar players. The Marshall range has also grown to include some low-priced practice, hybrid and solid-state maps. The JCM series by Marshall was the most popular 80s rig and because of the name Marshall many guitarists today buy the lower priced Marshall amps in the belief that they are going to get that classic Marshall sound. These cheap Marshalls are ok but the reader should be left in no doubt that the solid state Marshalls don't recreate the classic tube sound despite the sales pitch. I think the Rockman is mentioned (might be in another chapter) but I think they don't make them anymore. I'll check on that.

This chapter is going to prove a difficult rewrite. I started out on a Peavey Bandit guitar amp, had a Marshall stack with JCM800 head, a Peavey bass amp (7 years playing a Jap Fender Jazz bass), various keyboard amps. I've bought Marshall cabs where the original speakers had been swapped out and also bought a new Marshall cab for a band and someone in the band swapped those out with cheaper speakers (needed the money I guess and thought I wouldn't spot it). I've made the mistake of buying a cheap 5 watt practice amp only to find the sound was terrible. There's many cautionary tales and pitfalls to avoid.

That's just a few ideas. If you wish to revert my edits then go ahead. This is not my book and most of the material had been written years before I landed on the shores of Wiki World. Still there's very little bad weather in Wiki World and its quite good fun to be a Wiki citizen.

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 01:13, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Placeholder for removed material from this section
I've removed the "chain" description and placed it here. The intro of this section needs to be a short description of the contents that follow. I've placed the material here so that I can add it in later.

MATERIAL REMOVED

The first point to understand is that everything that comes out of an amp is all due to the chain of sound. This chain refers to all the factors that comprise a rig: guitar, leads, amp, effects and your playing style. If all the links of the chain are strong then you will achieve a good sound.


 * 1) The first link of this chain is the player. It's the player's skill that determines the quality of the sound coming out of the guitar. A player whose technique needs improving will make the guitar sound worse than a player who has some technical skills, especially when amplified. Thus, accurate timing, clean intonation, balanced playing technique and optimal handling of the instrument determines the overall sound of the instrument. Almost all of the tone of the guitar comes from the guitarist.
 * 2) The second link is the instrument which the player manipulates. If the guitar is set-up poorly or has old strings; no amount of amplification will help improve the sound.
 * 3) The next link is the pickup. Pickups can sound clean, muddy, fat, or even metallic. This is especially true if you run it through a good clean channel.
 * 4) It's only after all these do we get to the amplifier. Within the amplifier there are a few more stages itself: preamp, equalizer, effects loop, power amp and speakers; all of which contribute to the overall sound. Amps also have different internal parts (tubes, solid state, digital modeling, analog modeling) and different makes of speakers and cabinets. There's also different configurations of the internal circuits and there's always some deviations in electronic parts. All these factors affect the sound of the guitar

END OF MATERIAL REMOVED

--Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 19:15, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Placeholder for No amp here!
I've placed this material here. It does need to be included but this chapter is not the place.

Removed material

No amp here!
One of the iconic images of heavy rock and metal is a "Wall of Marshall" standing behind the entertainer. However, chances are that only 4 of these speakers (a double stack) are real, if at all. Some artists may even use amp modelers in secret. Brian May, for example, uses only 6 Vox AC30s even though he has a "Wall of Vox"

End

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 20:39, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

The Class A debate - Placeholder
There's a lot of discussion online about what is and is not Class A. Here is a link to an advert free article by Randall Aiken:

The Last Word on Class A

I'm struggling to find justification to keep the section on Pure Class A, Class A and Class AB at the start of this chapter. Looking at the amount of threads and articles online discussing the definitions and the methods of categorization and with this being a beginners guide it may be better to place this in another section called "The Debate On Class A and Class AB". If a reader is genuinely interested then the first thing they are going to do is check what is said at the start of this chapter only to find that no one actually agrees as to the correct classification of these operating modes.

We can keep it in by altering the text away from the debate by just saying that a single-ended one "output tube" configuration completing a 360 input cycle is the only true Class A and by this definition all amps not fulfilling this requirement are Class AB though because I'm not an expert I imagine that I may be wrong.

This reminds me of the question "What is knowledge?" asked by Socrates (Plato's protagonist) and as each person answers, Socrates dismisses them on the basis they are speaking about how knowledge is acquired, retained, used or imparted to others (the act basically) and he is after the "essence" (the fundamental form from which we can divide the concept no further for it is in itself the cause for all the other things). Here Pure Class A, Class A and Class AB are modes of operation based around passing an electrical current through a series of connected components. I digress but it may be interesting to see if a philosophical approach can be applied to the problem of classification in the sense I could eventually find a way to write a neutral non-debatable description of what is on offer.

I'm basically saying there has to be some way to write the Class A, Class AB and Pure Class A classification without resorting to examples that can be proved to be otherwise or contrary to their own description.

Considering that I'm hardly qualified to write this chapter and the fact that the online debates have already got me musing about Plato's forms it might be a better idea for me not to bother with this chapter and move onto a a less problematic area in this book. lol

I'll give it some thought and if I find no solution I'll rewrite the tube amp section so there's no cause for confusion in the reader's mind. Clarity sometimes involves removing those things which have never received a true definition. Demiurge beware.

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 16:48, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

This Wikibook is garbage
It needs to be rewritten from scratch by someone who knows what they're talking about, and doesn't drink the magic vacuum tube Kool-Aid. 216.31.219.19 (discuss) 00:31, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

lol. Absolutely spot on my learned friend. I pointed out I know very little about the subject of amps. Everyone complains but no one wants the job. Life hey!

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 11:09, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

As someone from the UK I didn't have a clue what this American user was on about - Kool-Aid (we have Lucozade in the UK but that's for when you have the flu). So I looked it up. Here's a cut and paste hack from the Wise Geek site:

The term “drink the Kool-Aid” is used to describe blind acceptance of something, whether it be a high stress work environment, an order from a superior, or membership in a particular group. This term is commonly used in American politics and corporate culture, typically by outside commentators, who might say that someone is “drinking the Kool-Aid.” People will also tell each other not to drink the Kool-Aid, in the hopes of encouraging people to open their eyes to a situation before it is too late.

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 11:18, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

25W into a 4x12 cabinet is not 100W into a 1x12 cabinet!
25W into four speakers is about as loud as 25W into one speaker, all else being equal: same speaker make and model, wiring for the same impedance, and the same material coming from the amp at the same voltage amplitude.

Although there are four speakers in the 4x12, each one plays more quietly. The 25W is divided four ways, to about 8W per speaker whereas in a 1x12, the speaker will take all 25W.

What a 4x12 cabinet provides is a different sound due to the dimensions of the cabinet, the interference between multiple speakers, and the fact that the speakers are not working as hard for a given power level.

The 4x12 cab also provides more maximum power handling. Four 50W speakers can take 200W as a group, and that's really what makes the cabinet potentially louder. But the power has to be driven into the cabinet to make that happen; the mere presence of four speakers doesn't create more power.

Some 4x12 cabinets are wired for four ohms. This may come about due to four 16 ohm speakers being being wired in parallel. Such a cabinet is louder than a 1x12 made using the same speaker, because the 1x12 cabinet will exhibit 16 ohms.

216.31.219.19 (discuss) 17:35, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Placeholder for Rack-Mounted Products section
I've removed this for the main body of this chapter for the moment. Needs to be in an Effects section or Outboard Gear section.

START

Rack-Mounted Products
Rack mount units are the ideal setup for live arena playing. Rack mounted units gives the player maximum control of the tone and the ability to access different effects patches during a live performane. These units are mounted in standard 19-inch rack. The fact they each unit is a dedicated separate component allows the guitarist a high degree of flexibility in regards to tone and the order in which the units are chained.

A typical rackmounted setup would consist of a pre-amp unit, equalizer, speaker/cabinet simulators, power amplifiers, power unit and effects. Additional units such as tuners and MIDI switchers can be added. The routing options are more complex than those of a standard stack setup allowing the guitarist to draw upon a vast range of sounds either in stereo or mono.

Quite commonly, these are all controlled by a MIDI pedal, plugged into the MIDI switcher.

END

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 12:50, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

solid-state vs solid state
I found this online. Obviously something online isn't necessarily the last word on the matter:

The Use of Hyphens Has Become More Restricted

Hyphens were more widely used in the nineteenth century. Did you know, for example, that Herman Melville hyphenated the title of his most famous novel? He called it Moby-Dick. In many cases, the hyphens are no longer used. They either have gone back to be two words or have become one word. A lot of biological names that were hyphenated an no longer are. For example, the common North American woodland plant the May apple used to be hyphenated most of the time; nowadays, it seldom is.

A more recent example is the compound adjective solid state. When transistors and chips first began to replace tubes, it was two words. Often, as the term became more common, it would be hyphenated. However, the word is used a lot less than it was twenty years ago because nowadays virtually every electronic device is solid state. It is not used as often because there are fewer things to contrast it with. Since it is not used as widely any more, today we usually see it written as two words again.

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 16:12, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Placeholder for Tips section
I added these Tips sections but the info would be better incorporated somewhere in the main body of each chapter. So placing the removed material here for the moment.

START

Tips

 * Visit the manufacturer's site for information and then compare their description to online reviews and forum discussions. Comparison allows a more balanced view to be formed especially with regards to the quality of on-board effects and the general performance of the amplifier.
 * Buy the best amplifier that you can afford while stretching your budget to the limit of what you personally consider expensive.

END

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 16:25, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Decibels and Wattage - Placeholder for removed material
The material I removed does have some relevance but needs further explanation about the non-linear relationship between decibels and wattage.

START

Doubling the amplifier wattage or amount of speakers will result in a volume increase of approximately 3db. Multiplying the amplifier wattage by ten (10 watts --> 100 watts) will result in a volume increase of approximately 10db. Note that 25 watts into a 4x12″ cab will be as loud as 100 watts into a 1x12″ cab. A full stack consisting of a 100 watt amplifier and two cabinets of 4x12″ speakers is equivalent to 800 watts.

END

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 22:21, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Modeling - Placeholder for removed material
Below is the material on modeling units which I have removed. This chapter is about buying an amplifier so tightened focus. The removed material has been placed here because it is relevant just needs to be somewhere else.

START

Modeling
A deviation of solid state that attempts to mimic the gain-compression on a valve-based amplifier, it is basically a combination of a very clean power amplifier and a tone modeling unit producing most of the tone. Some may consider this as the Swiss-army knife of amplifier. The best of these amplifiers can recreate the sound of many other units with acceptable accuracy and also have effects such as delay, chorus, flanger, reverb. The effects and modeled amplifier are patched into the correct configuration to recreate classic rigs such as a Gibson L5 being played through a Fender Twin Reverb or a Fender Stratocaster coupled with a Marshall stack. The power of modeling allows preset patches to be created that can emulate an acoustic guitar or synth. For beginners cheaper modeled amplifiers or a small emulation box like the Line 6 POD may initially be useful though if you find yourself returning to the same patch then it may be time to buy that particular combination.

There are basically three kinds: Analog circuitry, Dedicate DSP, and modeling processor (typically also have many digital effects onboard). Analog circuitry and dedicated DSP are typically the best kind, while modeling processors seems to have a bit of a lag between your pick attack and the sound produced, and you should test one carefully before buying it.

Many amplifier modelers or micro-amplifiers, like the Rockman, are actually DI Unit hybrid with effect units. A DI unit transforms the unbalanced, high impedance signal from the guitar into a balanced, low impedance signal for use with a mixer; however, some desiged for use with guitar have amplifier modelers within them, and may have multi-effect processors for additional effects. Most often these are used with headphones, but they also allow direct input of the guitar to the mixing desk in a recording studio, while retaining some of the tone and quality of an amplifier.

The main benefit of using a DI unit is that they are compact, and they can get "loud enough" and have a particular tone. This is particularly true for amplifier modelers and "headphone amplifiers", as their embedded electronics frequently have a somewhat decent approximation of a tube amplifier. You can also use these in recording, or use it like a preamp and plug it into a larger amplifier for volume. Also, if you are often going to hook up to a PA system with your amplifier, these may provide a cheap option and quicker setup than a larger amplifier.

The main disadvantage of DI units is that they cannot completely capture the tone of a guitar amplifier. The ultimate way to connect an electric guitar to a PA is to use a microphone in front of the speaker.

END

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 23:31, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Placeholder for "What Makes A Good Amp"
I've placed this section here. It promotes tube amps in preference to solid-state amps. The first amp for a lot of guitarists is usually a solid-state because tube amps are quite expensive.

START

What makes a good amplifier?
A solid state amplifier can provide a good tone. In fact, many pedals that are designed to create a metallic tone are designed to use the hard-clipping functions that the solid state amplifiers provide, one thing that tube amplifiers cannot do well.

Tube amplifiers are sensitive to their input signal. The harder you play with your pick, the more they tend to break up and distort. The softer you strum, the warmer and breathier they appear to sound. This is known as touch sensitivity. Multiple preamp gain stages can sometimes push an amplifier to the point where you do not hear the pick attack on the string. Finding a balance where pick attack and sustain are clearly articulated is the sign of a superior matched preamp and power section. With a good quality tube amplifier, the subtle changes you make with your pick and finger pressure has a dramatic impact on the sound and is part of the process of creating your own identifiable style.

However, a solid state amplifier has not yet been able to recreate the dynamic feel of a tube amplifier. While a solid state amplifier can get fairly close in tone, it's many times harder to influence the tone simply by how the guitar is played. A good tube amplifier will distort on command when digging into the strings, while a lighter touch cleans everything up with seemingly infinite levels in between. Where as, a solid state amplifier usually requires adjustments to the controls in addition to playing style to have any effect on the tone.

END

Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 23:30, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

Placeholder for removed material
This section about customized amps needs to be elsewhere - probably a new chapter called Customizing. Placed here for the moment.

START

Low wattage
Why would someone want to make an amplifier with low wattage, which is usually 5 to 15 watts – making them practice amplifiers, but in a stack format? The MG15MSII by Marshall is a microstack aimed at the practice and entry level market. While they may be in a stack configuration these low wattage solid state heads are essentially practice amplifiers.

However, for many <20w tube amplifiers, such as Epiphone Valve Junior's Stack configurations and its numerous clones, such as Crate Blackheart BH5H, or the Marshall 20w Lead and Bass Head, it provides much more flexibility that cannot be provided in a combo. A hot rodded class-A tube amplifier – which can go up to 16 watt RMS with 2x 6v6 and proper output trnsformer, pumped out a 4x12″ cabinet, can be as loud as a 50 watt solid state amplifier, and thus it provides potential to upgrade in the future. Furthermore, by separating the speaker from the amplifier, customizing (hotrodding) the amplifier is actually easier than a combo. Since pumping sound through more speakers produces more volume but has a softer sound, it may be even better than a fully cranked 50 watt tube amplifier during a performance. By separating the amplifier and speaker into two pieces, it could also be easier to carry, as in the case of Orange Tiny Terror (15 watt), which comes with a shoulder bag.

END

--Sluffs (discuss • contribs) 21:31, 8 October 2015 (UTC)