Talk:German/Level I/Wie heißt du

Various Topics
In this lesson, it says that "Mein Name ist ..." would be considered incorrect. Er ... um ... no. It's correct. It's slightly less common, and a little more formal than "Ich heiße ..."

I just started reading through the questions and answers, but when I got to the Wie Geht's section problems, a question asks for the word for terrific, which was previously given as Klasse!, but when referring to the answers, it uses Toll!. I think that either Toll! should be added to the lists of responses or the answer to the question should become Klasse! .

Need a guide to pronunciation - how does the esset sound? Is there some phoenetic guidance that can possibly be written down? Any way of including WAV or other audio files to cover the basic pronunciations?
 * I added a link to the pronunciation guide, which has a pretty good overview of the pronunciations of all letters. I can't do audio, but others on the site can. - SamE 05:01, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * The es-szet sounds no different than the ess-ess. It has another "purpose" (see link to pronunciation guide) - Marsh 20:42, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)

SamE - Is there a reason for having a Lesson Overview that so closely matches the page TOC? - Marsh 20:42, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * It works when there isn't a table of contents; you can delete the one on lesson 1 if you want. It also can be a "plan" for the page before I get the page up and running. - SamE 22:00, 31 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * That makes sense. The TOC "appears" once you have a certain number of header lines on a page. But the "plan" idea sounds good as a development tool. - Marsh 17:06, 2 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Corrected two Anglicism: 'So so' and 'Später' -> 'Ganz gut' and 'Bis später'.
 * You don't need to tell us what you've done. We can see it in the Page history or Recent Changes.
 * Log in so you can edit pages with a username. - SamE 17:34, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * I suspect the earlier entries may have been Floflei6 before he got his nom de plume. For information: explain on talk pages only when you want to emphasize why a possibly controversial change was made or propose a major change and want consensus. - Marsh 17:47, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'm just curious, when you list the pronouns you put du and Sie together, which is true, but when you list the conjugations you don't make Sie clear. To me this might suggest that Sie would fit in with the conjugations of du rather then those of sie.. --Alexbl 02:17, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I had that in the note below the blue table, but I guess it wasn't that clear. I tried to fix that just now. - SamE 03:34, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

This lesson is pretty much locked down. Please don't make any big changes (i.e. new sections, deleting/rewriting entire sections, etc.) without consulting this page first. - SamE 19:00, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

The names section, with "our,their,hers his its" does not mention that these are english possesive pronouns. it seems to me there are no possesive pronouns in german. whatever the case may be, some mention of this needs to go on the page. Hfastedge 19:45, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * This was just an attempt to explain something the long way without actually introducing conjugations until the "Verbs" section. I added a couple comments to clarify it. Please tell me if you can think of another way to do this. Thanks for reading the lesson and helping us out. - SamE 02:47, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Is it Tschüss, or Tschüs? I have a 1993 dictionary and a 2000 textbook, and both say it only has one 's'. - SamE 20:35, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * it's Tschüss --Moolsan 22:04, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually, since it is informal language, either Tschüs, Tschüss or Tschüß may be used and found. This is a bit weird, since the word is almost exclusively used in talk, not in the writing. Endymi0n 04:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

"Tschau, Susi!"

---> nonsense. Tschau is a "Verballhornung" of Ciao(it.).

This is not German. Susi is no common German name, it is a reduction of Susanne.

Regional other prases are used:

"Tschüss" (Hamburg) ("adjüst" (Helgoland), "Ade", adieu(fr.))


 * There isn't much else that is used as an informal good-bye, so if you have any other better suggestions, please put them here. - SamE 03:06, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * Right. As stated above this is weird, because there is no such word as "bye" which is used in both talk and writing. "Hi"/"Hallo" for greeting and "Tschau" (ciao)/"Tschüs" for goodbye are quite common, but there is a tendence to use regional words as "Moin" and "Grüß Gott". However, these clearly indicate you as coming from a certain part of Germany (Austria,Switzerland) when mentioned in the wrong part. The statement beneath correctly mentions the use of the phrase "Mach's gut" as a common indirect way to say goodbye. May be added... Endymi0n 04:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)


 * informal hellos and good-byes are very different, corresponding with the dialects. I would never use one of the above, but Servus or Pfüadi, but this is not for a first chapter. A phrase i heared nearly in every circumstances is "Machs gut!" or "Machen Sies gut!", which is only used when people are frendly (no matter weather they use Sie or Du).


 * It is important instead to add parts like Servus/Grüßgott - we had exchange studendts and I am from Regensburg, Germany. When they came they expected people to say "Guten Morgen!" and friends to say "Tschüß!", but this did not happen. People there simply doesn't use this forms. So they should be added and explained in a note. This will help students when they come to Germany/Austria to understand immediately what people said. Of course one should not add dialect there, but only these few very important words. Maybe even the others like Ade etc. should be added in the note. --SabineCretella 08:22, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

somewhere it is mentioned 'das mädchen' but i think it should be 'die mädchen', if im wrong, plz tell me, lest i continue learning wrong Nikhil bandale, email id:nbandale@yahoo.co.in learnin deutsch all the way


 * Mädchen ends in -chen, then it's a very good guess to assume das. And yes, it is das Mädchen. (remember, capital M :) Mike 18:22, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * "das Mädchen" is actually right. Sounds weird as it is referring to a feminine person, but the neutral aspect refers to the miniaturisation "-chen". Endymi0n 04:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I am german an just read the first lessons. You did it really fine; nobody can believe, that every thing is explained in the first lesson! Learn step by step! It's true, that "Tschau" is a german version from "ciao", but only if you know eachother well and feel good. "Tschüß" is the origin form, sice 2002 we have to write double s, one s can't be correct, you always pronounce it with double ss. The ß is also pronounced. 60 years ago, the german knew thre forms to write s, I think it was first a cause of "good looking and easy writing" (with hand). There existe no Institution in germany for correct writing and til 19th century everybody could write as he liked. The german language includes many other languages and also some grammar of other languages. So meanwhile it's correct to say "Mein Name ist...". Every word with "~chen" or "~lein" means little and get the Artikel "das". In former times houses and farmes had female workers called "die Magd", a little one is "das Mädchen" and now common for every female child; the older words "die Göre" or "die Dirn" (in lower Saxonie "die Deern")changed their meaning: Göre is a cheeky girl and Dirne someone who sells sex. In Southgermany you can use "Das Madel". Be sure, german girls don't like to be "das"!

Pronunciation?
Hi! Thanks to everyone involved in the project. It is a very good guide for beginners but it is really handicapped by the lack of pronunciation for words. I think audio files for the conversations would really do a world of good to the project. I did not know Ich was pronounced as Ish and instead read it as Ikh. Thanks anyway.


 * On my way of doing so... =) BTW: Both pronounciations are wrong, there is no adequate reference in English vocals. Try to pronounce "ch" as a "sh" but touch your palatine not with the tip, but with the middle of your tongue. Endymi0n 04:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

I think "Ich" can be pronounced in either way; it seems to be a north/south dialect difference. I've seen pronounciation guides all over the internet and one of the things many of them seem to stress is that the "ch" can be pronounced either "sh" or "kh" and still be correct.

Also, I would like to help with making audiofiles for pronouncing the words, but wikipedia says it prefers this "OGG" format that I've never heard of and I can't find any software that supports saving audio in it. Can someone tell me what it can be made in? Would it really matter too much if I submit it in MP3? --Shdwninja8 21:14, 30 May 2005 (UTC)


 * "[kh]" (with a very soft "k" if pronounced at all) is always the right way to say "ch". Everything else is a regional dialect.
 * MP3 is afaik a patented. [Vorbis.com] provides tools for the free OGG format.
 * --Messi 23:10, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

sorry, but this is not true. the pronounciation "ikh" is only used specific dialekt. The normal "high german" pronounciation just has no english equivalent or similiarity... The sound for the "ch" part of the word is produced by having your tounge loosley in your mouth (without touching your teeth or anything inside your mouth) and use a small amount of air with the right speed


 * Well here's an easy way to get the idea: It's just like the ch in Michigan or Chicago. The usual English ch (change, charge, China) is pronounced tch, remove the t/d and it's exactly right (well, not exactly, it's still more like "sch"). 87.78.124.167 22:48, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

The boy throws the sphere
I think using "die Kugel" as German translation for "ball" is just wrong; the appropriate word would be "der Ball". In some situations, "Kugel" is best translated as "ball", but in most cases, the meaning is more "technical", more "sphere" than "ball". "Kugel" definitely doesn't remind me of anything that is usually thrown by boys.

"Der Junge spielt der Ball" is incorrect, it should be "den Ball" (cases)


 * This is literally translated as "The boy plays the ball" which is nonsense. Correct tranlation is "Der Junge spielt mit dem Ball" (boy plays with the ball) or "Der Junge spielt Ball" which means the boy playing a ball game.

einen?
What is this article einen? as in the sentence "Der Mann hat einen Hut." (I am a beginner.) -- Taku 05:37, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * Take a look at German: Lesson 3 (Indefinite Articles). einen is indefinite article ein (masculine) in accusative case.


 * Thanks! -- Taku

A bit of cleanup
Now that I'm back, I'm afraid I don't agree with many of the changes that have been made. Over the next few edits, I'm making some major changes to each section. If anyone has a problem with or a question about this, please tell me right here. - SamE 16:33, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

If in doubt...
...about anything, please contact me under endymi0n at trojasonic dot com. I'm native speaker (born and raised in Germany) and my mother teaches German for foreigners. I also did the German Alphabet recording, so if you like it, stroke my soul - I could make some more... =) Greetz, Endymi0n 04:33, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

on questions of format in forming questions
Hey! I am really having a good time using the lessons and am learning quite a lot, but I simply wanted to say that on the section on forming questions it's not very linear. For instance, in the first two paragraphs there should be a consistent phrase instead of using different phrases throughout the paragraphs. However, if the intent is to continue using the different phrases, there should be a break in the text or label it is an example. Just a thought. 72.144.98.126 05:05, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

? Incorrect form in 2nd Conversation
I am questioning the form used for asking the other persons name in this conversation. Is Herr Schwarz older than Franz, or have they met previously? If not, then using "Wie heisst du?" is incorrect, it should be "Wie heissen Sie?", since Sie is proindicated for use where both parties are adult (unless they have agreed to use du), or formal siuations where neither party has met the other, and should be used until they are familiar enough to use du.

Ca you clarify how this situation / conversation formed, and the forms used to support the text? Tmalmjursson 13:05, 11 February 2006 (UTC) Thor's pet yack


 * To me, a native speaker, the dialogue sounds like Herr Schwarz is older than Franz, as you said. I assume Franz is meant to be a child, because only then you get a situation in which one uses "du" while the other uses "Sie". Epsilon 18:11, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't worry about the formal forms. I wouldn't use "du" to address a total stranger, a teacher, business man and so on, but no one's gonna kill you if you do. After all they'll be able to tell from your accent that you're not a native and will be positively surprised. It's not like in some Asian cultures where you "lose your face" when you use the wrong honorific. I'm not saying that the rules are wrong, but don't be afraid to commit a faux pas, where not nearly as strict as we're said to be. Same goes for the greeting: No one will be offended when you say "Hi!", although it's probably uncommon for anyone over 30 ;-)

SZ?
I disagree with the statement "upper case ß is written as 'SZ'". I've never ever seen it.

For one thing, ß never is the first letter of a word, so in everyday wiritng it doesn't need to be capitalized. If you want to capitalize a whole word, you'd use SS (Süßigkeiten --> SÜSSIGKEITEN).

Any different views? Epsilon 18:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that you will rarely see it even though this sould not have been the case. See here for clarification. Thus it should now be changed to SS in the article. However, I would still continue to use MASZE for Maße, MASSE for Masse to make it easier to understand. Regards --217.83.69.74 19:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Among others, the East German Duden apparently once made an attempt to introduce an upper case "ß" many years ago, but until this day such a glyph is not being used. Up until the spelling reform, Both SZ and SS were correct, when spelling a word in capitals only, such as in "DAS GROSSE/GROSZE HAUS". Note that "GROßE" never has been correct, even if it is often seen, e.g. in publicity. Today, only SS is correct. However, in professional context (I'm an architect) I still prefer the "wrong" SZ, to avoid the aforementioned confusion between "Maße" / "Masse", as both words are quite common there Thamane 20:39, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Note, that there is also a large ß. Since 2008 the large ß has even it own unicode. More information in German: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gro%C3%9Fes_%C3%9F 85.179.37.72 (discuss) 22:44, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Alphabet
The order you are using in the alphabet table is quite unfamiliar to a German native speaker. We just take that direction: abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz äöüß, not mixing umlauts into usual alphabet HolgiDE 10:49, 21 Mar 2006 (UTC)
 * We do, but only if we actually spell the alphabet. Where, for example, would you look up Ärger, Ökonom, and über in a dictionary? Among A, O, and U, respectively, right? Note to non-German speakers: ä, ö, ü, and ß don't have places in the alphabet. Therefore, if you have to find an alphabetical order for words containing umlaute, you'd treat them as ae, oe, ue, and ss. Epsilon 10:24, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Sometimes they are treated as just a, o, u and s, as well. So if you don't find a word in one place, look in the other.
 * "you'd treat them as ae, oe, ue, and ss" - Never heard of that, as far as I know, Ä is either listed after A (A, Aal, Antenne, Arbeit, Atom, azur, Ärger), or as if it was an A (…Arbeit, Ärger, Atom…). … Okay, I looked in my Duden (standard German dictionary), here how they do it: äöü is treated like aou and ß as ss, but before ss if the word is the same (i.e. Maße, Masse).

Recording speech
Hey there!

I just registered at the english Wikibooks (though I've been quite active in the german one before), and I'd like to contribute to this Wikibook. I am willing to record some of the dialogues in this lesson (or probably in some of the other lessons as well) and provide the audio files to this community for free and for free use. Since German is my native tongue, this shouldn't be much of a problem.

Please tell me what I am supposed to do.

Cheers!

Human Robot 22:25, 16 Apr 2006 (UTC + 0200)

Supplemental: Okay, since I didn't get any responses so far, I will simply go for it now, record the files, upload and link them. Human Robot 18:11, 21 Apr 2006 (UTC + 0200)

Hi @all

I've recorded some files and uploaded them. I hope, that the voice quality is ok, and that it's not too loud or too soft. If I should change anything with my settings, please tell me this. Thanks.

Sigrid

--Eskroni 15:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Mistake in title
In title "Wie Heißt du?" the word "heißt" has to be written with a small capital, but this would change the name of the file/link. Maybe someone wants to change that.

--HolgiDE 10:35, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Sentence Structure
'The common word order in a German sentence is the same as in English: Subject verb Objects. (SvO)'


 * That's not the case. The syntax requires the (finite) verb being the 2nd part of every main sentence; 'Fußball spielt der Junge' is equally correct, but now the object is stressed. (Translation: 'Soccer is the game the boy plays' or sth. like that) The German syntax requires the finite verb to be the first part of every question, apart from interrogative pronouns, and requires the finite verb to be last part of a subordinate clause.


 * The standard word order is subject-verb-object. However, you can place almost any part in the first place, in particular objects and adverbs. But this is not the standard word order. --Martin Kraus (talk) 08:41, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Umlauts
This is a sentence from the section about umlauts: "In writing, the umlauts are sometimes substituted with the vowel plus e, i.e ae, oe and ue." That i.e. is confusing. The first time I read it I didn't get it... I understood what the sentence means, but I just didn't get the examples it was showing because of the i.e. Maybe it should be changed to "for example". 84.9.187.195 12:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Formation
Is the formation of "Ich heiße Asd" something like "I'm called Asd" or "I'm named Asd"? Just to know, 'cause in portuguese it's really much like that "Eu me chamo Asd" (literally: "I call myself Asd") being used more than "Meu nome é Asd" (literally: "My name is Asd"). 200.230.213.152 23:34, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

It's just "Ich heiße Asd." There's no structure to it to compare it to in English or Portuguese. "Heißen" is a verb that just means "to be called ...", "to be named ...", "to have the name/meaning" etc. Ich = "I" heiße = "am called", "am named", "have the name".

Names
hi. in the names section on this page in the little blue box it says that "Wie heißt ihr?" means "what are your names?" but then it says (outside the blue box) that the plural form is "Wie heißen..." I'm very confused.
 * It depends on who or what you are asking about. Wie heißt ihr? is how you ask a group of people what their names are; Like "What are your(plural) names?" Wie heißen sie? would be how you ask ABOUT a group of people; Like, "What are their names?" hope that makes sense. Also NB: Wie heißen Sie? (with a capital S) is the formal version of "What is your name?"

error in venn diagram
"guten morgen" means "good morning" and is not a form of goodbye


 * Good morning is also a form of goodbye in both German and English. In English it isn't as common anymore; don't know about German. Anyway, not an error.


 * "guten morgen" should be "guten Morgen" and is no longer a form of goodbye in German. I removed the Venn diagram, because of the typos in it. Also, it doesn't make sense to teach students who want to learn German about Venn diagrams. --Martin Kraus (talk) 08:37, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Keyboard Shortcuts for Umlauts and Eszett
I notice that you provide keyboard shortcuts for Windows and Mac computers to enter German characters, but what about users of Linux. For them, you can simply say that they can find the "Character Map" under Applications>Accesories>Character Map from the GNOME Desktop.

Agomulka (talk) 02:49, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Tagchen!
I've never heart someone saying "Tagchen!". Maybe in a small dialect? Some people say "Tachchen", but nobode would write that. 92.225.139.188 (talk) 20:48, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree. However, you might pronounce the "g" in "Tagchen" as a "ch" and still write it with a "g". This pronunciation of "g" is actually quite common, e.g. for "König"; I also heard people pronounce the "g" as a "ch" in "Kollege". --Martin Kraus (talk) 23:32, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I have removed "Tagchen" because it is not in the recording. --Martin Kraus (talk) 23:27, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Servus
I think it´s wrong, that it´s only used in Eastern Austria. I´m from Bavaria and have often heard it there. I don´t know what it´s like in other parts of Germany, but I reckon they use it too.
 * In Northern Germany 'servus' is not used. However, you can here it in Munich. It is therefore not restricted to Austria, but I would guess that its not used anywhere outside the "Austro-Bavaria hemisphere". 85.179.37.72 (discuss) 22:38, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Ich heiße_...
Note, that in German, unlike in English, there must be a space in front of the ellipse (…), if the sentence and not the word is not finished. 92.225.139.188 (talk) 20:51, 7 June 2010 (UTC)


 * True, be bold and change it, please. --Martin Kraus (talk) 23:33, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Splitting the Lesson into 3
Since there is far too much content in this beginner lesson, I suggest to split it into 3 lessons corresponding to the 3 dialogues. Any concerns about this? --Martin Kraus (talk) 23:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I've reorganized the content to prepare for splitting the lesson into three lessons. The actual split will affect a lot of pages because the following lessons have to be renumbered; therefore, I will first reorganize the content of all lessons before I actually split the file into multiple files. --Martin Kraus (talk) 21:18, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Video

 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNzAjc8Pf2g
 * The video is based on the dialogue in the lesson. The link was added at 02:08, 1 November 2010, by . (Please sign your contributions!)

Tschüs(s)
Tschüs should better be written with one 's' only, because in some regions the 'ü' is long, especially in the north. However, according to LEO also the spelling with two s is correct. 85.179.37.72 (discuss) 22:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Where I live (in Kaiserslautern in Rhineland-Palatinate), people say Tschüss with a short ü, thus the spelling with two s is more appropriate here. In the old pre-1996 orthography, it would have been spelled Tschüß. Pelzflorian (discuss • contribs) 23:01, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Ciao
I'm wondering, why the Italien 'ciao' is taught here as a common German word. You rarely here it and never write it in German, and until I read it here, I probably would have written it 'Tschau!'. It is very informal. 85.179.37.72 (discuss) 22:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I feel that a short guide to German pronunciation should be given at the very beginning of this course. I know giving a section on German pronunciation can be repelling (and scaring) to the new learner, but such a section will help him avoid a lot of effort in guessing the pronunciations. A little persistence from the student will make his life a lot easy.

Dialog 1 – Names
The names ‘Franz’ and ‘Greta’ are out of fashion for decades. It could be a dialogue between 80 year old people, but German teenagers are nowadays more likely called ‘Felix’ and ‘Sarah’. Have a look at to get an idea. -- Sloyment (discuss • contribs) 10:23, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


 * Feel free to change the names consistently and rerecord the dialogues. But please do not change the names before you have recorded and uploaded the new versions of the audio files. :) And, for the record, I know a German girl called Greta who is about 10 years old now. --Martin Kraus (discuss • contribs) 13:42, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

even if this is from 2011. if you'd looked closely at your reference, you'd noticed that greta is still in the top 60. admitted franz is out of fashion, but not that bad. I'm only 40 and we had 3 franz in class. 93.185.141.171 (discuss) 06:54, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Dialog 1 – “Kennst du den Lehrer?”
This phrase is unidiomatic, i.e. it can be understood, but nobody would say it in that way. More realistic alternatives would be “Sag mal, weißt du, wie der Lehrer heißt?” or better “Wie heißt eigentlich unser [neuer] Lehrer?”. “Kennst du den Lehrer?” actually means “Do you know him personally?”, to which you could answer e.g. “Ja, wir sind gut befreundet.” or “Ich kenne ihn nur vom sehen.” -- Sloyment (discuss • contribs) 10:23, 31 July 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the question is OK in this context because it kind of asks whether you had him as a teacher before. More importantly, it is grammatically easier to understand than other alternatives. --Martin Kraus (discuss • contribs) 13:48, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Trouble is: Kennst Du den Lehrer which is a literal translation of do you know our teacher, doesn't mean the same. The German phrase 'kennst Du' means if you know him (personally). Better would be 'Weißt Du wer unser Lehrer ist?" Do you know who our teacher is?.93.185.141.171 (discuss) 06:43, 4 September 2012 (UTC)


 * While one may prefer your form, 'Kennst du den Lehrer?' is not wrong. It is as acceptable as the English translation 'Do you know the teacher?'. And it's simpler than your proposal. Pelzflorian (discuss • contribs) 22:56, 19 March 2014 (UTC)