Talk:First Aid/Oxygen Administration

Proposal for Deletion
I propose that this section be deleted as it is much too advanced for a lay rescuer, just as childbirth is not considered a first aid issue. Oxygen administration should be left to professional rescuers, not first aiders. --Nugger 20:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Oxygen administration is an advanced first aid skill and should stay in the advanced topics section.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 20:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Then using that logic, child birth should be put in the advanced section as well. --Nugger 21:00, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


 * No - emergency childbirth isn't first aid at all - not even advanced first aid. It's in some other category altogether.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 01:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Show me one society that advocates Oxygen Administration by lay rescuers. Because as you stated, if we were making a book for EMTs/Paramedics then this would be included, so far the only thing I have found on Oxygen Administration is that which is for Professional Rescuers. Even the statements made here state "manually operated, self-inflating bag-valve mask units are used most effectively by at least two well-trained and experienced rescuers working together" which is advocated by the American Heart Association. This book is not for highly-trained personnel, it is for lay rescuers who have received a limited amount of training. Therefore, even in the advanced training section Oxygen Administration goes beyond the bounds of a lay rescuer and into the world of EMTs and Paramedics. No other part of this book is directed to professionals, even topic in the Advanced section. For example, in the extended assessment section it states "While waiting for professional help to arrive..." in the first line of the paragraph. --Nugger 04:02, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * reset

The Lifesaving Society (of Canada) trains lay rescuers in oxygen administration. If you want more info on it, their course is called Airway Management. Other training organizations that offer O2 training: SJA, CRC, CSP, ARC (and that's just some of North America). I'm not a fan of oxygen administration for reasons iterated adequately by ILCOR and the AHA, but I still think it should stay.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 04:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, but those are not national or international societies that you pointed out, as well from the research I have done most of that list is for Professionals. You put the Lifesaving Society of Canada as one of your sources, except that too can be considered professional as you do it for a job/volunteer. Remember, we are doing this for people who have little to no training. Not people who are highly trained in using oxygen and the like. Just everyday people, babysitters, elderly care workers, etc. EMTs/Paramedics/Lifeguards/etc can all be considered professionals and not lay rescuers. --Nugger 05:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Absolutely not - lifeguards are lay rescuers, and all the programs I mentioned are for lay rescuers, including the LSS program. The concept for this text is that it could be used on any first aid or CPR course. The advanced topics section could be used for wilderness/marine/airway management/AED course (which are all still lay rescuer-level courses, despite requiring training beyond a simple first aid/CPR course).
 * If you need an international training organization that does lay rescuer oxygen administration training... I already gave you 3. The LSS exists in other countries as well. The Red Cross (both American and Canadian branches at a minimum) offer oxygen admin courses. SJA started in the UK and has branches throughout the world. This is not a novel concept - lay rescuers giving oxygen if they have the required training and access to the right equipment. Yes it requires taking a course beyond first aid, but that doesn't mean that it's a skill beyond first aid.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 14:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia disagrees - "A lifeguard is an emergency service worker." The American Red Cross also looks at lifeguards as professionals. Even the Lifesaving Society of Canada speaks of lifeguards as professionals. Why? Because look at the system, you have multiple lifeguards on one location who are trained in Basic First Aid and Advanced First Aid. They are there for prevention and early medical intervention. They are NOT lay rescuers. We can continue to go back and forth with this and never get anywhere, but in final, if you are going to include Oxygen Admin in the advanced section, then you can include Emergency Child Birth. --Nugger 14:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Please don't give me ultimatums. For starters, Wikipedia is not an authority on whether lifeguards are lay rescuers or healthcare providers (the only two options). If you want to know what the experts think you'd have to read water safety publications. Lifeguards are professionals, yes. We have more training than your usual first aider, yes. Some of us (who have the appropriate training and equipment) use oxygen and AED (and other stuff...), yes. But we're not healthcare providers. Whether you agree with it or not (and I happen to disagree), that's a statement of fact.
 * The difference between oxygen admin and emergency childbirth is that you can be a lay rescuer and administer oxygen if you have the appropriate training and equipment. There's no course you can take for emergency childbirth without it being a healthcare provider-level course. It's not a lay rescuer skill - it's a healthcare provider skill.
 * This book includes lay rescuer skills only - anything else belongs in a different book.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 15:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)