Talk:First Aid/C for Compressions

C for compressions
I have also changed back the section on obstructed airway victims. I've added the part about visible obstructions to this section, but the protocol for anyone not breathing is CPR, regardless of cause. You should try adjusting airway, and in the highly unlikely event something is in the mouth, then remove it.

Experience suggests that its never in the mouth! Furthermore, the section in Obstructed Airway which says that if its not the tongue, its a foreign object is just incorrect. It can be other medical causes! Owain.davies 17:19, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a difference between CPR and procedures for unconscious obstructed airway. Please don't make significant changes like this before discussion. Keep in mind that we're writing a book for lay rescuers - the medical causes you cite are irrelevant to lay rescuers. Again, personal experience is irrelevant - it may inform tips and tricks, but it doesn't change protocols. There is no finger sweep/foreign body check after readjusting the airway - rescuers should go straight to compressions after a 2nd failed attempt at ventilation, as was covered in the obstructed airway section you reverted. If you're working from standards that are different from ILCOR's, then we need to thoroughly discuss such changes before they're made. If we're working from the same set of procedures, then they need to be reflected accurately.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 17:26, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * After checking the useful ILCOR link you posted, their instructions are clear - the treatment for occluded airway in an unconscious victim is CPR, with a finger sweep of any object clearly visible in the mouth only. Therefore i was correct.  Owain.davies 18:58, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
 * That was a misunderstanding; we're saying the same thing in different words. The content has been updated, and is currently correct. – Mike.lifeguard  &#124; talk 15:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I believe
I believe this entire section should be replaced with C for Circulation. Compressions can be covered under a topic of CPR. This would also allow us to change D for Deadly Bleeding to D for Defibulation.

I believe this to be neccessary as the current standard may be confusing to many, as ABCs are usually contributed to a patient's vital neccessities. Airway, Breathing, Circulation are the basics, with Defibulation now added as a part of First-Aid due to the rising number of AEDs available in public places.

When you have ABCs as Airway, Breathing, and Compressions, you mix Patient Assessment with Treatment. Treatment should be under the different categories, not in the categories themselves. (ex. Airway is the category, so a proper Treatment for that category would be to maintain it by keeping it open.) --Nugger 23:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Personally, i agree - it makes the whole teaching of it easier, because its the same as when you come to teach vitals later. Circulation is the thing you are teaching, compressions is how you simulate it.  And as you know, i believe that D for defibrillation is far better than mike's 'wet check' Owain.davies 17:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's called C for Compressions to emphasize the lack of a circulation check, which was one of the most major changes in 2005 and is deserving of emphasis.
 * I agree that defib is a higher priority than a deadly bleeding check, and that needs to be made clear. Unfortunately, using an AED requires specialized training, and therefore cannot have a place in this chapter. – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 19:45, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Defibulation is no more complicated than applying 2 pads (with directions on them) and pressing a button. An AED (Automated External Defibulator) makes the work easy enough for a four year old. No training is necessary to operate one successfully. As well, ABCs are meant as an on-going check of a person's vitals. To bring compressions into the mix is incorrect as that means you are by-passing the check for circulation. It can be changed that Circulation be the title of the article with the treatment (CPR) as the subject matter. Besides, putting Compressions as a category alone is incorrect because the title does not encompass the full spectrum of CPR, which requires rescue breaths as well as chest compressions. (The only time this is not true is in the case of Airway Obstruction, however it is necessary to clear the airway or your efforts will be useless as no oxygen will reach the cells and shock will occur. --Nugger 23:30, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree - AEDs are idiot-proof. Unfortunately what either of us thinks is irrelevant. The training organizations (by far the overwhelming majority - I've never heard of an exception) say that AED training is required to operate them. Therefore, it stays in First Aid/Advanced Topics.
 * Please note that there is no circulation check in BLS/CPR any more. That's the point of not calling it C for Circulation (which would have formerly been the case). The change is to emphasize the new protocols.  – Mike.lifeguard  | talk 23:38, 15 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I see what you are going for here. I am looking at it from the perspective of an EMT, not a lay rescuer (So my training is more along the lines of an EMT and the way we have been taught is to do the ABCs as I have stated.) So, Mike, you are correct in stating that Compressions is the correct terminology. (For those of you who don't believe, check with the American Heart Association's website for the 2005 guidelines change for lay rescuers.) --Nugger 00:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Stopping CPR
In the article where it says "Victims are also likely to make sighing noises or groans as you perform chest compressions - this is just the sound of air trapped in the lungs being forced out, and you should not CPR if these noises are heard." - shouldn't it mean "you should not STOP CPR it these noises are heard"? Because these are obviously not signs for a functioning circulation...
 * Yes, I've fixed it. &mdash; Mike.lifeguard &#124; talk 00:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Rythm
Maybe there should be a soundfile with the rythm of 100 beats pr. seconds? --Anjar (talk) 14:49, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

C does not stand for Compressions. It stands for CIRCULATON, as it also incluids giving IV/IO fluids