Talk:First Aid/CPR summary/Archive 1

CPR summary authors and history
= From Wikipedia:Talk:CPR summary = OK, I've had a shot at creating this article after the discussions at Talk:Cardiopulmonary resuscitation. It's based on the UK method of teaching CPR (as that is what I know), which is as far as I know universal in Britain and is very similar to methods used elsewhere. The method I've described is consistent with the current British First Aid Manual which is the definitive guide to First Aid teaching in the UK. I hope you don't feel the need to add all sorts of varitions in teaching technique to this article, please can those can be kept to the main Cardiopulmonary resuscitation article?
 * 2005-10-02 12:08:06 User:Terra Green (→3. Open the AIRWAY - best remove stuff from mouth *first*, else tilting head can make it drop further down)
 * 2005-06-06 16:38:11 User:Dabbler m (→5. Give TWO EFFECTIVE RESCUE BREATHS - whether typo fix)
 * 2005-04-06 12:36:06 User:130.246.135.176 ((formatting again))
 * 2005-04-06 12:34:51 User:130.246.135.176 (indent continued)
 * 2005-04-06 12:33:31 User:130.246.135.176 (indent to aid clarity of flow chart)
 * 2004-12-04 13:00:06 User:Tjwood (→1. Check for DANGER)
 * 2004-12-03 20:01:22 User:Tjwood (→6. Look for signs of CIRCULATION - breathing is very unlikely to re-start, there is no need to check for this (see talk))
 * 2004-12-03 19:56:42 User:Tjwood (→3. Open the AIRWAY)
 * 2004-12-03 19:55:55 User:Tjwood (→1. Check for DANGER - remove &quot;Signal the accident scene, designate someone to do the circulation.&quot; See talk,)
 * 2004-11-29 14:29:42 User:Rama (→6. Look for signs of CIRCULATION)
 * 2004-11-29 12:36:17 User:Rama (→7. Commence CPR)
 * 2004-11-29 12:34:56 User:Rama (→6. Look for signs of CIRCULATION)
 * 2004-11-29 12:33:35 User:Rama
 * 2004-11-29 12:07:13 User:Rama (→3. Open the AIRWAY)
 * 2004-11-29 12:04:38 User:Rama (→1. Check for DANGER)
 * 2004-10-07 14:22:39 User:Cdang m (category:first aid)
 * 2004-09-23 21:42:51 User:Tjwood m (layout)
 * 2004-09-23 21:33:41 User:Tjwood (→4. Check for BREATHING)
 * 2004-09-23 21:33:01 User:Tjwood m (added numbers to the steps)
 * 2004-09-23 21:31:26 User:Tjwood (Created summary article as discussed at Talk:Cardiopulmonary_resuscitation)

I tried to lay the summary out as best I could using the limited formatting Wikipedia allows. I hope it makes things clear.

I know this summary is not perfect, but it's a start. For one thing I think we need some decent photos or illustrations!

Tjwood 21:51, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have no idea what "Signal the accident scene, designate someone to do the circulation." means, so I removed it from the Danger section. If you can re-phrase it so that it makes sense then by all means add it back! It is not necessary to re-check breathing every minute; it is unlikely to re-start of its own accord and you will notice if the casualty starts breathing. There is no need to waste time checking. Tjwood 20:02, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I must have been very tired. I meant "Alert oncoming motorists". OK, sounds silly, but it's a major danger (the physician who set up all the rescue system in my town, and who kept telling everyone that the llife expectancy of a man on an autoroute was a few seconds, was stupidly ran over by a truck after an accident :/ ). For the breath, I was trained to check from time to time, especially in the beginning, but I'm agreed with you. Rama 20:39, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Ah, OK! I'll add a bit back about traffic especially. Tjwood 12:52, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Formating
Perhaps we would like to change the formatting a little bit, as, since we aim at having very few text, the titles take lots of place, in proportion. I'll try to suggest something when I have the time to do so Rama 13:36, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

What would you think of something like this :

CPR Summary : Dr ABCD Danger, Response, Airways, Breath, CPR, Defibrillation

 Assessing the situation

 Check for Danger

to yourself and to the casualty. Remove any hazards. Make sure that you do not put yourself in danger. If you are near a road, ensure that you are clearly visible to traffic.

 Check for Response

does the casualty respond to voice or painful stimulus?
 * If YES, check the casualty for other conditions and call for help if necessary.
 * If NO, shout for help now, and continue:

 Cardio-Respiratory Reanimation

 Check for Airways

tilt the head back and lift the chin. If necessary, remove any loose and obvious obstructions from the mouth.

 Check for Breath is the casualty breathing?
 * If YES, place the casualty in the Recovery position and call for help.
 * If NO:
 * If you are not alone, ask a helper to call an ambulance and go to step 5.
 * If you are alone
 * If the patient is unconscious due to injury, drowning, or choking, or is the casualty a child or infant, carry out resuscitation for one minute then call for an ambulance.
 * If the patient is not a child and is inconscious due to a malaise, call for an ambulance immediately, proceed :

Give two effective rescue breaths. After the two breaths, check wether the respiration has restarted.

If if the respiration has restarted, place the casualty in the Recovery position and call for help. Monitor the patient and ensure he does not stop breathing again.

 Manage the Circulation Monitor the circulation of the patient.
 * If there are signs of circulation, continue rescue breaths: 10 breaths a minute for an adult or 20 breaths a minute for a child. Repeat step 6 after every set of breaths, checking signs of circulation after every minute.
 * If they are absent :
 * For an adult, alternate 15 chest compressions with 2 breaths
 * For a child or infant, give five compressions to one breath.


 * Continue CPR until emergency help takes over; the casualty moves or takes a breath; or you are too exhausted to continue. If a defibrillator arrives on the scene, it will have priority on the CPR; follow the indications given by the handler of the defibrillator.

 Defibrillation If a semi-automatic defibrillator arrives before the mobile medical unit, use it :
 * 1) Remove all remaining clothes from the chest of the patient
 * 2) Place the defibrillation patches
 * 3) The defibrillator will give further instructions. If the analysis of the patient requires an interruption of the CPR, the defibrillator has the priority.
 * 4) Do not touch the patient when giving shocks

I think one of the advantages in that we have to rely less on the IF... THEN... ELSE... GOTO... system which tends to confuse people (in my experience, people end up putting everybody in recovery position and cross fingers because it is the only thing that they remember :p).

Perhaps you might not quite like the colours I have choosen; the reason why is that I am completey colour-blind, so I'll be obliged if you care to change them to more manageable colours for people who can actually see chrominance ! :p

Thanks ! Rama 16:53, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

PS: I've added the small part about the defibrillator because Rama 16:58, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * 1) and since the whole point of the CPR is to maximise the chances of success for the defibrillator
 * 2) there are more and more of these things in public places, and some police units carry them around too, it would be a shame not to use a device which would be available just because you didn't think of it.
 * 3) People should know that CPR might have to stop and be able to witness this without panicking.


 * It's a good idea, but I'm not sure how well that formatting fits in with Wikipedia's style. All that HTML gets in the way of editing etc, and Wikipedia prefers to leave specific colour choices to the user's stylesheet rather than code it into the article. I have asked a question on the Village Pump about this: Village_pump_%28policy%29.

The defibrillation part would be a good addition, although it might be worth pointing out that in many jurisdictions people should have training before attempting to use even a public access AED. Tjwood 17:59, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Yes, it certainly is not standard, but is some way, so is the page itself. Correct me if I did not understand the underlying idea, but we want something a little bit like a quick reference card, don't we ? Actually, we might even create a PDF file and a png with LaTeX... Well, I don't know, after all, you're the boss on this page, so you're the one who decides the orientation we want. I wouldn't like to make you uncomfortable just because I didn't get the point in the first place ! Cheers ! Rama 12:05, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Hey, I'm not the boss. This is Wikipedia, anyone can change whatever they want. I created this article as a result of some discussion on the main CPR article (Talk:Cardiopulmonary_resuscitation) which suggested that we did need a simple summary article so that someone wanting to refresh their knowledge of CPR did not get bogged down in the details in the main article. Ideally I think we would have some sort of quick reference card, but there are problems doing that on Wikipedia which is driven by content not design, and where articles must be easy for anyone to edit. PDF files are unfortunately not easy to edit.Tjwood 14:21, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)