Talk:Final Fantasy VII

And so it begins.
So, now there's a Final Fantasy VII Wikibook and it actually has some content in it now, too. How... amazing. The thought of starting one had occurred to me quite a few times while playing the game, mostly while consulting GameFAQs - a lot of completely redundant work there and all under same "rip this off and I'll eat you for breakfast" license. I saw the FF6 work, and thought that starting a FF7 one might really work. So, now I just hope this thing gets even close to done. Slowly, but surely.

Erm, I don't have too much other words of exhortation, so here it goes. Go forth, edit, and ramble. --Wwwwolf 00:23, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

Random Notes for the Wise Gamers
Here's some random details:


 * Use the character names as they're given in Wikipedia. That is, Aeris is apparently now officially, permanently, irrevocably "Aerith Gainsborough".
 * Walkthroughs should preferrably split into "boss-size" chunks. That is, one major boss-fight per page. Or, if there's no boss nearby, at least "hour or two of headless wandering". For examples, from meeting Aerith to getting dumped to the sewers from Corneo's mansion would be a "hour or two of headless wandering" (though it does have a boss in the end); from sewers to the fall of Sector 7 would constitute as a normal boss-size chunk: Wandering and instructions for so can be crunched into a reasonably-sized reading, and it contains exactly one major boss-fight (Reno).
 * Walkthrough modules are named "FF7: Walkthrough: Some title here, please". Non-walkthrough modules, or optional/in-depth subquest modules, should be "FF7: Some title here, please".
 * At this preliminary stage, there should be no need to make an unified walkthroug section-to-section navigation bar or anything. However, it would be neat if the articles would simply link back to the Final Fantasy VII article in the beginning. Just put a paragraph saying  to the beginning of the article. Remember, it can always be fixed later =)
 * I worry that going from Boss fight to boss fight will break the walkthrough into arbitrary sizes. some "stages" in the game have more then one boss fight, and some "stages" in the game may have no bossfights at all. it should all be about completion of an objective. For instance, blowing the first mako reactor is a mission that isnt really over till you get back to Barret's house, even though the boss is dead. I think it should be possible to break up the story into logical stages --Whiteknight 17:57, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yep, wholeheartedly agreed. Didn't mean to say that the above was supposed to be a really hard, binding rule. So if it's better to break the story up into other kinds of sections, and it seems logical, by all means, go for it. --Wwwwolf 00:08, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Once again, happy editing. --Wwwwolf 20:06, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Damn, Mediawiki is smarter than I am. I actually read the instructions now. =) So, replace that last thing with this:


 * Walkthrough modules should be named "Final Fantasy VII/Walkthrough/Some title here". Non-walkthrough modules should be named "Final Fantasy VII/Something or other" - and they can be also subclassified as needed (for example, materia articles will be in "Final Fantasy VII/Materia/(Type) materia".
 * And there's no need to make ToCs or backlinks to the main article, the server does all that stuff already automatically.

This wiki stuff is cool. --Wwwwolf 22:30, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Article naming
Please observe the article naming. The modules should be named thus:

Don't include the quotes in the title, and replace the italicised things with your own, of course. Edit this table if you really think there should be another type of thing.

Also remember to link the article properly in the table of contents, for example, Article title.

And if the article is on the table of contents and it doesn't exist yet, and you want to change the title before actually creating the article, remember to change both parts - the article title in link and the displayed title!

List of currently available templates

 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Boss - for boss statistics and strategy
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Summon Materia - for Summon Materia statistics and ability descriptions.
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Recommended Level - for showing recommended average party level.
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Walkthrough Navigation (nee Disc 1 Navigation) - Walkthrough navigation, to be placed to the bottom of each walkthrough module.
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Character Navigation - Navigation for the character articles
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Magic Materia3 - for Magic Materia with 3 Stars (maybe needs a redesign)
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Magic Materia4 - for Magic Materia with 4 Stars (maybe needs a redesign)
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Magic Materia5 - for Magic Materia with 5 Stars (maybe needs a redesign)

Magic Materia has only 3 distinctive types of Equip Effects:


 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Equip Effect Minor - minor effect, str-1, mgc+1, hp-2%, mp+2%
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Equip Effect Medium - medium effect, str-2, vit-1, mgc+2, mgc def+1, hp-5%, mp+5%
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Equip Effect Major - major effect, str-4, vit-2, mgc+4, mgc def+2, hp-10%, mp+10%

TODO: Maybe rename the templates since they are only used by magic materia.

Templates to come and other ideas (add if you want):


 * Some other navigation templates?

"Preface" and "Appendices"?
I think I'll some day move "Appendices" (Eg "Final Fantasy VII/Appendices/Foo") to normal namespace ("Final Fantasy VII/Foo"), as recommended above. Some reasons:


 * 1) The "appendices" here contain information that is referenced to often in walkthrough. Links become mouthfuls.
 * 2) This is an electronic book that has the linear content (walkthrough, etc) and supplementary material (Other Stuff). Let's not think of it as a bound book. Don't think of it as an appendix, but as a margin or a footnote area that's as wide as eye can see!
 * 3) Adding "Appendices" doesn't add any useful semantic information, just structural stuff that's fairly useless in an electronic book. It should identify a tangible group of modules (like "Walkthrough" or something), rather than a vague group of texts that just hangs somewhere.

I'm too lazy to move the chapters right now though, but I recommend against creating new chapters as "Appendices", and just use the above-mentioned scheme for independent texts.

story section
I think that this guide should have a separate "storyline" section. that way, we can separate out some of the mechanics from the "spoilers." in the end, we could have a "Bringing it all together" section (or something similar) to boil down the story (Cloud's true history with Sephiroth, Jenova's true history, etc...). we could also include appendices for cameo appearances, strange points, glitches, and continued themes from other final fantasy games. --Whiteknight 17:52, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Good idea. The way I'm writing things is that the walkthrough itself is probably pretty mechanical, a la "kill the boss and watch a ten-minute cutscene". I'm not good at writing plot synopses, but if someone's into writing plot descriptions and analysis, that can, by all means, be included. --Wwwwolf 00:08, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Right, I added some of these things to the main ToC. I should also say that I wholeheartedly agree there should be a section something like Hacki's Ultima Nitpicks - I love Hacki's page and think it would work far better in wiki format =) --Wwwwolf 19:11, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Copyright patrolling & begging for help
Someone posted someone else's walkthrough at Final Fantasy VIII. Bang. Copyvio folks were a-hounding.

Walkthrough authors are obviously easily annoyed because it takes a lot of effort to write this stuff. Just look at any walkthrough you find in the net: "don't post this to (these million plus one sites) because they tried to rip me off by using it without my permission, grr".

I don't want copyvio sort of stuff to happen here. I'm not asking for really, really strict scrutiny of everything before it gets posted, but please, keep your eyes open. My heart skips a beat if I see a huge contribution by an anonymous user; I spent a while googling before my heart stopped doing weird noises. (Create an account and you might be able to sneak something under my radar... =)

But also, if you do know of a walkthrough that might be useful and the author doesn't mind, please do ask nicely before appropriating such content. --Wwwwolf 14:42, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Restructuring
I think that the current structure of this Wikibook is really flawed. Things are scattered around and not grouped consistently. Particularly, the "Time-wasting" section seems obselete as Chocobo breeding yields KOTR and other rare materia, and the battle square is the only way to get the Ominslash manual and the W-Summon materia.

I propose splitting the book into three sections:

Preface

 * Introduction to book, aims, etc.
 * Game information
 * Character profiles
 * Cloud
 * Barret
 * Story Synopsis/Timeline
 * Before the game
 * The Cetra
 * Rise of Shinra
 * Cloud's Past
 * Hojo/Gast/Sephiroth
 * Nibelhiem Incident
 * During the game
 * After the game
 * On the Way to a Smile
 * Advent Children
 * Advent Children

Walkthrough

 * Disc One
 * Disc Two
 * Disc Three
 * Disc Three
 * Disc Three

Appendices

 * Materia
 * Magic
 * Summon
 * Command
 * Independent
 * Support
 * Item Locations
 * Weapons
 * Armour
 * Accessories
 * Items
 * Enemy Skill
 * Chocobos
 * The Golden Saucer
 * etc, etc

I don't know how active this Wikibook is. I intend to help as much as I can.


 * Oh, the wikibook is "active" all right. It's just that I guess nobody else besides me thinks this is their "current project" or anything. Looks like I'm the only one who currently seems to write the walkthrough (I promise to do all of the stuff, but everyone's free to add stuff, of course). Not many people work on this yet, and since this thing is pretty new, there's not much stuff yet. =)
 * And apologies for the "time-wasting" thing. I'm definitely not the best one to come up with names. =) I think I'll split the contents somewhat like what's suggested, it seems fairly logical to me. --Wwwwolf 14:02, 26 September 2005 (UTC)


 * No problem. The new structure looks nice. I'll try to work mostly on some statistics, story, etc. --Joey Roe 15:26, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

CD 1 walkthrough is complete
(Movie trailer voiceover guy voice) It began as the greatest pseudointellectual adventure of all time... (cur) (last) 19:55, 18 August 2005 Wwwwolf (Created. And this is very very sparse.) ...and now, the the world is in brink of a new enlightenment... (cur) (last) 18:20, 2 December 2005 Wwwwolf (Created. And that concludes CD 1 walkthrough!)

Yay! All of the chapters of the CD 1 walkthrough are now in place!

Yet, it's not perfect. So, if there's anyone out there who knows something about something, here's the stuff to do. Many of the chapters are listed on the index as having 75% completion. Check those out. There's items in the text marked as "todo". It would be great to fill those in.

Also, the chapters could use puffing up here and there, as there's probably corners that I haven't searched too closely, and some placements of items aren't well-described at all. So I definitely encourage people to get a closer look at those. I will keep writing more of the walkthrough as I go along. Sorry to keep everyone waiting though - my excuse is that Demon Gate ticks me off, infinitely. --Wwwwolf 18:39, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

You should really have a link to the next chapter in each section
For someone just reading through the walkthrough and trying to use it, they want to be able to take a given chapter and go to the next one easily. I'd recommend doing something like the FF6 guide did and have a link to the next chapter during each section, or maybe even a chapter template at the bottom so you can skip to any part.--BigCow 18:32, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yep, a good idea, and yes, it has crossed my mind. =) I'll definitely add them (at least for the CD1 chapters) soonish. --Wwwwolf 02:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Okay, done adding the stuff on Disc 1... I think we can let Disc 2 wait until the chapters for that are done. --Wwwwolf 02:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Hey I did the honors of adding that links to the next sections on each page. Hope that helps.  I'll be adding other stuff soon too. Mason11987 15:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. =) --Wwwwolf 20:37, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Another re-organization idea-Gold Saucer section
Would it be worth having a section just talking about the Gold Saucer? Things like the battle square and so on could be nested inside or as sub-articles, and it would provide a way to cover things like Chocobo racing, the speed game, the wonder square, and the fact that you can buy GP from the guy outside the tram sometimes in one place rather than having to split the information up into a bunch of separate articles. It just seems to make more sense, it's one of the things I would look for anyway.--BigCow 06:37, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think it'd be a good idea. I think I'll move the Battle Square article to Minigames/Gold Saucer or something, and then there'd plenty of space to put all other minigames there. I don't think the Battle Square article is getting much bigger than it is, and it'd still be a very reasonable sized article with twice the length (I'm guessing that's about as long as it'd get with all of the other GS minigames). --Wwwwolf 16:00, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Awesome. I've started filling it in. Just so you know, I'd be happy to fill in the "events during the game" section as well, I've started writing up a little story summary which just gives the outline of the plot.--BigCow 16:44, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 * That would be great. I'll be finishing the rest of the CD2 walkthrough shortly (sorry, a few days delay at most), and after that, I'll definitely finish the CD2 walkthrough, probably not go into terrifying detail what comes to the Northern Crater - though I'll definitely cover some of the end bosses... --Wwwwolf 22:59, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

And that concludes CD 2!

 * 11:41, 29 December 2005 Wwwwolf (→Commandos in Midgar)

Yay! Now all we need is CD 3, and I'll be getting into it shortly! --Wwwwolf 11:50, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

"Knights of Round" Versus "Knights of THE Round"
Right, I do realize that people's tendency to correct for grammar is high, but the real name of the materia is "Knights of Round" without the "the" I've gone through some pages and changed that but did not get through all of them due to time constraints on my part. 24.225.230.3 16:13, 10 January 2006 (UTC) (p.s. I can help too if you guys want... I've played through the game at least 3 times and pretty much memorized everything there is to get. Just tell me what needs to be done and I'll do it. And, before anyone tells me to get an account, I already have one, I'm just too lazy to log in right now :P)
 * I checked my tvtime screenshots folder today, and verily, the name "Knights of Round" hit me on the forehead like King Arthur's wet sock. I guess I was thinking of the Capcom arcade game and coincidentally the more proper spelling. =) I've tried to fix things. Anyway, welcome to the jolly lot, loggeth ye onneth and tweaketh the guide, or something. =) --Wwwwolf 20:30, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Weee! I went a did a little work on some things, see below for details. (I am 24.225.230.3 btw, or rather, one of the people who use that IP) Mxuxl1 01:43, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm... I was randomly running through the game yesterday and went to the island that the materia is found... the menu called it "Round Island" ... I think the materia is supposed to be summoning the knights of round island. .... Should we be eliminating King Arthur references? Mxuxl1 16:00, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Um... that's an interesting point of view. However, that doesn't sync with the fact that the game draws a lot of stuff from other mythological sources (think of other summon names, which sure as heck aren't named after the places they are found from...) I think the island is named after the knights, not the other way around. --Wwwwolf 17:20, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Point taken. But is it technically correct to say that the materia is summoning the knights themselves? Mxuxl1 15:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

The Great Big To-Do List
This is a collation of all ToDo items in the guide, and also a place to put your own big major issues. Feel free to edit this list. --Wwwwolf 21:12, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Walkthrough

 * Wall Market: Overview of the Wall Market area.
 * Wall Market: What other items can be got? And how they're got? How they affect the Corneo subgame outcome?
 * Desert prison: Items you can grab here.
 * After getting Tiny Bronco: List of cool stuff that can be done before going to the dream date.
 * Temple of the Ancients: What's in the rest of the rooms you can get to from the Time Guardian.
 * Bone Village: What can be excavated?
 * Corel Huge Materia Train: Arrrggggggghhhssshit. You know, the most annoying thing, when I first played FF7, about stopping the train was that all of the guides had only the PS controls. Now, when I've been writing the walkthrough, I don't have Windows installed so I only have the PS version at hand. =(
 * Disc 2 conclusion: Things that absolutely have to be done before the end of CD 2, or they're gone for good?
 * Disc 2 conclusion: The stuff under Midgar is particularly badly documented, specifically that huge room with those vent pipes and all.
 * Disc 2 conclusion: Reno/Rude/Elena fight stuff in the unlikely case where someone has spared themselves from Wutai.
 * Descent into the Northern Crater: Descriptions of the various paths, and better description on how to get Good Stuff, in case anyone cares.
 * Finale: The final fight strategies could use some polishing.
 * Finale: Anyone got any idea on how the number of groups in the Bizarro Sephiroth fight is determined? Preferrably with a frigging source?

Other modules

 * Summon Materia: All of these are missing the APs. (Done. --Gesu 21:12, 12 February 2006 (UTC))
 * Magic Materia The Magic Materia pages is missing a lot of info. Will get to work on it starting today.
 * Instructions for getting PC version working, including required patch to fix chocobo racing bug and video codec for newer systems.

Finished Stuff

 * Wall Market: When helping Aerith to escape the Turks, in which order the barrels should be pushed, anyway? (Done. Mxuxl1 01:45, 17 January 2006 (UTC))


 * Desert prison: What can you actually do in the desert? (Done. But I'm not quite sure about something in it though. Also, Added a bit to Dyne's boss section Mxuxl1 01:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC))

The great big w00t
02:34, 16 February 2006 Wwwwolf (This is not really done it, but I believe this concludes the walkthrough.)

As you can see from the grammar, and the fact that I'm in Eastern European time zone (+2 hrs to the above), I beat FF7 yet again in a rather tired state and wrote about that in even more tired state. But at least the framework is there. The walkthrough "meat" is now there; all it needs is some more information and polishing. What can I say, except for "yay" or something along those lines?! --Wwwwolf 12:41, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

What didn't get moved
Oh-kay...

I appreciate the move of the book, but some more modules need to be moved:


 * The conventions chapter; I need to find this... never mind, it's moved
 * Final Fantasy VII/Status Effects
 * Talk:Final Fantasy VII/Conventions
 * Talk:Final Fantasy VII/To-Do
 * Talk:Final Fantasy VII/Archive 1
 * Image:FF7-Tifa-Limit-Piano.png
 * Image:FF7-Tifa-Limit-Piano.mid
 * Image:FF7 Golden Chocobo Breeding.png
 * Image:FF7-CMajorScaleAndChords.png
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Character Navigation
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Boss
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Summon Materia
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Magic Materia3
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Magic Materia4
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Magic Materia5
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Equip Effect Minor
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Equip Effect Medium
 * Template:Final Fantasy VII/Equip Effect Major
 * Images associated to those templates
 * ...also worth checking everything listed in the template list in /Conventions talk page above

I'll add to this as I find the stuff.

There's also tons of redirects and like with possible history data.

And please lock all of the moved modules: stuff is easier to maintain, and less confusing, and no duplicate work is done, if there's no mysterious forks floating around. --Wwwwolf 10:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, these have all been copied across, I'll check on the rest in a minute. The MIDI file however can't be uploaded due to the wiki's current configuration (nor can I see many other guides wanting to use MIDI samples); you could always move it to Commons and link to it from there or something. I'll get onto locking and whatnot soonish. GarrettTalk 05:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)