Talk:Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Todo

Removing the noob notes
I do think that most of these are helpful, but I believe they could be drastically condensed to more quickly convey their information. Some of these go on for several paragraphs to convey a one or two sentence solution. --Null Point (talk) 03:28, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I suggest add a page and link it to the original page, on that new page title it (OriginalPageName)NoobNotesand instead of a whole page of notes just insert the page's NoobNote link in place and move that Noob Note to that page. IT will still carch people's attention by being right in the way of your tutorial but will not impede the flow of information if someone is reading and wants to skip the noob note.--Bullercruz1 (talk) 12:47, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * What is a "Noob Note"? A note from a noob who has additional questions, or a note for a noob?
 * If it contains additional information, it should either go directly in the page, or it is to advanced for the tutorial - so it may go at best to the discussion page, because most readers won't need it.
 * If someone needs clarifying information he should write it on the discussion page, than the tutorial could be made better.
 * In both cases the concept of a Noob Note seems strange to me. --SoylentGreen (talk) 17:07, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I can see the use of Noob Notes in the case of pointers for beginners, I've used a couple of noob notes so far for information in what I can do if something isn't working. There's a info template that can be use for useful information, why not a similar "noobinfo" template that's targetted to those who are new to Blender with additional information? Daworm (talk) 02:40, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Additions to a page should be evaluated based on their content, not who made them. I don't see any reason to preserve the distinction between notes added by "noobs" or "mere users" and those added by the people who consider themselves to be "authors" or "team members".  Daworm is quite right that questions and comments belong on talk pages.  For tips that might break the flow of a module, I recommend using a template such as B3D:N2P/Note or B3D:N2P/Hidden begin, depending how long and generally-applicable they are.  Info would also be acceptable. --Stepheng3 (talk) 19:48, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

To SoylentGreen
Thank you very much for the restructuring of this page, it is much clearer! Excellent to work with. --Bullercruz1 (talk) 16:43, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Removal of Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Index
I second that it should be removed. There's no practical reason for why it should be there, etc. --Electro (talk) 13:34, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Sure, done and done--Bullercruz1 (talk) 15:33, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm someone desperately trying to find answers to how to use Blender. How can one find what's in your book without an index?!!!! Idiots.

Rewrite of hotkey sections
The Blender hotkey information is in complete disarray, spread across many pages. I suggest that all relevant (by key, by mode, etc.) hotkey information be placed on single pages. We should write a unified hotkey template to make this easier. The template should have all the hotkey information in it so we don't have to update key information on every page every time something changes. It should look something like this:

Every page should employ the template. The main hotkey page should have all the hotkeys, sorted by key (no filter). The navigation table should be rewritten so that the by-key information leads to anchors on the main hotkey page instead of leading to separate pages. Also, a general update of the information would be in order. Is this all possible? --Electro (talk) 14:52, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you would actually like to achieve? Do you want to write a hotkey reference? And what is the purpose of the template? --SoylentGreen (talk) 04:44, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, we already have a hotkey reference, check the TOC. It's just that it's completely disorganised and horrible. The template should make updates easy by effectively acting as a hotkey database, so as soon as the template is updated, all the pages get updated instantaneously. --Electro (talk) 08:33, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I've seen a second Blender HotKey doc and and am rewriting the entire TOC to replace the current hotkey links (plus much more). We should move this to that doc's discussion section. Oh, and, please don't do any major TOC rewrites until I finish this. Thanks! --Electro (talk) 11:25, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

The "under construction" icon
Do we really need it? I thought it's obvious that any unfinished module is "under construction". --Electro (talk) 07:16, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not 100% sure whether these icons has the same meaning. A tutorial may be finished, but could be improved. But we could use the 0% sign instead. --SoylentGreen (talk) 14:56, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Then we don't need it. As I said, anything unfinished is logically improvable. --Electro (talk) 08:58, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Page merge proposal
I suggest that Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Introduction be merged with Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Thinking in 3D. They should contain the same information and an ambiguous Introduction page looks unsightly anyways. --Electro (talk) 18:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree, but would go a step further and merge both with Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Understanding Coordinates. So the page would have real content. --SoylentGreen (talk) 06:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Very well. I'll see what I can do. --Electro (talk) 08:57, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright, done. Now go sight them! ;) --Electro (talk) 09:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Using this page
Is it appropriate to mark an item as done/in progress after attempting to complete it? --Illusionist
 * Absolutely. There is no one who would supervise this process, but some people are trying and check if you change the status of a page. So go ahead. --SoylentGreen (talk) 08:01, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

"Suggestions" alternate viewpoint
Quote from page: ''The intro of the book states that beginners need to read the chapters in sequence but there is a lot of repetition of the beginner information in later tutorials. Again, this reduces readability because one must wade through irrelevant information. Remove the beginner explanations from later tutorials and instead include a disclaimer at the top noting the other pre-requisite tutorials.''

Repetition is the core of learning. I think revisiting a topic a few times helps retention. How could it be irrelevant unless it covers something foreign to the exercise? People know how to skim past items they are already familiar with. If nothing else, the reader may receive some needed reinforcement, or gain a better understanding of the concept and/or it can even be a source of pride for those that they "already know that bit" when they get to it.

However, there are things within early pages ( I'm looking at you:Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro/Know_What_You're_Doing ) where technical terms are being used in detail (without being introduced) that SHOULD mean nothing to a noob that is reading items in-order. That's something that kills readability, and is discouraging to someone who has accepted the mantle of "noob" (by reading this at all) and is still "not smart enough" to understand items which the writer(s) appears to assume is common knowledge for noobs.

--Deadguy (talk) 13:28, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with both points. --SoylentGreen (talk) 04:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Version of Information?
Just wondering, to what version should the Wikibook pages be detailed for? Latest available? Perhaps have a template for things where short-cuts have changed etc. and say "in earlier versions you may have to do A -> B -> C instead of A -> B -> D"

Does that makes sense? Daworm (talk) 02:49, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Case in point File:Blender Screenshot for Beginner Tutorial.jpg this image, do you think perhaps update the image to a standard Blender view of current version? Not a modified colour view as that's the only page with a non-standard blender colouring for example. Daworm (talk) 02:51, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Merging Sections
I propose merging

Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Creating Basic Seawater & Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Texturing Basic Seawater into one article and fluff it out some more with appropriate content.

Daworm (talk) 03:50, 2 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Merged these pages into Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Creating Basic Seawater Dobz116 (talk) 11:00, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

2.5 - How do we handle such updates?
I would like to start working on content that is formatted for Blender 2.5, but it's not very clear to me how to introduce any new content without causing confusion for users still working in 2.49.

Looking around a little, it does not seem like these pages are getting a super huge amount of updates. Maybe someone with more wiki experience can let me know how this is normally done. Can we make a "branch" of the book that has tags for 2.5, or copy the entire thing and start to edit like crazy? Clearly the biggest issue is concurrent updates: if someone wants to improve something that is documented for 2.49, but it is no longer correct for 2.5, how do we keep the versions growing in value with such updates?

Any thoughts out there?

--Ksamson (talk) 19:21, 16 December 2009 (UTC)


 * I think forking the entire book would be counterproductive. However, it's quite appropriate to note in the text differences between 2.5x and 2.49b.  If a note gets to be than a sentence or two long, please use the B3D:N2P/Hidden begin template to minimize the impact on text flow.  When 2.5x becomes stable, someone can go through and update the modules affected by the changes. --Stepheng3 (talk) 18:12, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Get rid of the confusing 'Do' boxes
This is an issue that popped up on BlenderArtists. I suggest that we completely get rid of awful 'Do' boxes, IMHO they just confuse the reader. I mean, this is 3D modelling, you gotta have some brains to get into it and I think they are just useless and take up space. Not to mention that it's far easier (and more readable) to type plain text.

With that in mind, why not we make plain text the standard for commands instead of those boxes? At least change the formatting to something like   --JamesNZ (discuss • contribs) 08:04, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Outdated
The entire tutorial from what I've seen in Unit 2 is outdated. It pertains mostly to 2.4x only, but occasionally fills in some '2.58', '2.61', or '2.3' stuff. Needs to be MUCH better. nothing more to say.