Talk:Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Detailing Your Simple Person 2

A Bit Cursory
I felt like the explanation of the arms and legs got a bit cursory. It would be nice to have more pictures of what you did and more explanation of how you got that look. Some people (like me) are here not to just learn how to use Blender, but also to learn how to model. Thanks. --Kevin


 * It's on my to-do list. --Spiderworm 16:41, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I made it to the end, but the second to last picture shows a set of toes the instructions dont provide! Would love to know how to make those too. Thanks for the hardwork! I have the extruded feet though. Thanks a bunch again.

Ilazarte (talk) 19:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Feature missing from Blender?
I can't find the selection mode buttons in Blender anywhere, and CTRL+TAB doesn't do anything. Skips from the Lock button to the Render button on the header. It's version 2.34, if that helps.


 * That feature was introduced in version 2.35. The current release is 2.36.  You need to update your version of the blender.  --Spiderworm 00:08, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

selecting edges with older versions
Is there a way to select edges with older versions? Updating from version 2.34 to 2.35 is an effort not everybody wants to take. So what are the alternatives to get the same results with selecting edges using older versions of blender?


 * Yes. Selecting all vertices that are connected to an edge has the same effect as selecting the edge.  Just select all vertices that are connected to the edges that you want to select.  Out of curiosity, and also so that I can know if this information needs to be included with the tutorial because many other users are using 2.34; why not upgrade to 2.36?


 * becouse there doesn´t exist any precompiled binaries of 2.36 on the debian mirror servers.
 * In the meantime i´ve found out, that the downloadable packages from blender3d.org doasn´t need to be compiled - just copy them to the proper directory and start the executable. But nevertheless, Debian comes with a package management system called "apt" - which takes no notice about any software, installd "by hand". This means it cannot consider that software for resolving pckage dependecies, which means that one day, when other software will be updated, especially libraries, blender might refuse to start or might not run stable.
 * However, i prefer using apt for the installation of software as far as possible.


 * I'm familiar with Debian, used that distro for awhile and now using Ubuntu. I'm going to add instructions for using the latest blender on all linux distros on the first page so that we're all up to speed with the latest and greatest. --Spiderworm 18:42, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Make Face Problems
Hi, I am using Blender 2.36 and if I want to "repair" the hole in the arms. After pressing the FKEY a Windows pops up "Make FGON?" If I press "Make" the Error message "No Faces are selected to make FGON" comes up.

What is wrong? Thank you for your help. --AiRWOLF

I think the "Make Face" function only works on 3 or 4 vertices. Try selecting only 4 at at time, to fill up gradually. Also, make sure you have non-visible vertices non-selectable "Limit Selection to Visible" on your button bar, as it can pick up more than 4 if you think you just have 4.

Also: Make sure to remove doubled vertices... I had this problem and fixed it by hitting the WKEY and then selecting "remove doubles".

FGON (fake N-Gon) only works when faces are selected, not vertices. As it's name implies, it fakes a N-Gon by hiding edges. --Jamin3D

Problem following tutorial
Hello, so far the tutorial has gone great. I think it is very well done. But at the point of extruding the arms to bend them upward I am stuck.

I was able to delete the outer portion of the first arm (making a hole) and fixing it with the FKey. I then use the vertex select mode and select the top four vertices of the outer arm and hit the EKey to extrude them.

In your screenshots, at this point the model is shown sourounded in small cube bounding boxes, but mine is not. It looks just as it did in the previous screenshots of the tutorial, without the boxes.

The problem is when I extrude the vertices they extude out at normals to the arm surface, getting further apart from each other. It doesn't look like it supposed to.

I am able to use Ctrl-Z to restore, but I can't get past this point.

Please help a noobie figure out what I'm missing.

Thanks!

David.


 * I can't really help you with the extrusion as mine went fine. But the boxes can easily be switched on
 * and off by the optimal button under the sub division option.
 * All i did was select the top faces of the last "box bit" ,pressed EKey and chose region then held ctrl(PC)
 * and choose the desired length of one box.
 * Hope this is of any help,
 * Sledz41


 * Thanks Sledz41!


 * OP's right. The containment box doesn't show up simply by pressing the "Optimal Draw".  I had to hit last (2) buttons on the "Subsurf" bar ("Enable modifier during interactive display" and "Enable modifier during Editmode").  That caused a new button to appear ("Enable modifier to editing cage during Editmode") and when I hit THAT, I finally got my boxes back.  --RavinDave

Blender 2.37a and this tutorial
I am using Blender 2.37a and have reached the point in the tutorial where the extended arm is cut off. Up to an including that point all went well. However "mending" the open end of the arm has stopped me. I can select the vertices at the arm's end, but hitting the space bar/edit/faces/make edge-face yields yet another choice (not mentioned in the tutorial). A small menu appears labeled "FGon" and wants me to choose "make" or "clear." I choose "make" and get the error message: "Error: No faces selected to make FGon." Does the tutorial need updating for v.2.376a? Or, what might I have done incorrectly? (Also the picture of the cutoff arm is a tube in a wireframe rectangular parallelopiped - my picture at that point is somewhat less simple but quite reasonable following the instructions - a minor point perhaps.)

Any help or information will be appreciated.

Simm

I just had the same problem. The problem comes from a degenerated face. If you switch to face selection, you will notice a face that is on an edge. The solution i came up with was to juste delete the whole arm but its basis and redo it again. By carefully redoing the manipulation again (so without creating at some point this wrong face), it worked out well.

Psycho

I have a similar problem. I've extruded the arms upward and resealed one elbow hole, but when I try to reseal the other one, the new face is flat instead of curving smoothly underneath the arm. I can't think of anything I did differently on either arm.

JDspeeder1

PS. I figured it out, the problem arm is one "cube" too short between the shoulder and the elbow.

Elbow Patch
I'm following this tutorial and I get to the part where you make the arms bend up. When I fix the hole in his elbow, he gets something resembling a patch on his elbow. Using blender 2.34

Definition needed
The tutorial says "Under KDE, CTRL+TAB changes desktop so you will have to use the statusline buttons instead." What is KDE?

Is it this: Using KDE ?

I think it's telling you what to do if you have that KDE thingie.


 * KDE is a graphical desktop environment for Linux and Unix workstations. (http://www.kde.org/) CTRL+TAB must be a shortcut specific to that operating system, hence the warning note to users of KDE.

Scaling with axis constraint section

 * Moved comment from book text

I was rolling along nice until this section. Needs to be more clear and some of the new things you use aren't explained beyond, click button x. Mike, Aug 2, 2006


 * I've rewritten it a little... I hope it's better now. ~MDD4696 22:21, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, I can tell that there was an editor coming through reworking the text who stopped at this section... all of a sudden I have to learn to follow an entirely new style of prose. And it'll take twice as many read throughs to absorb what's being spoken about. Maybe I'll come in and work on it.205.201.200.74 20:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Problem with FGon
Hello, I'm using Blender 2.41, I want to repair the hole in the arms. I select only four vertices, after pressing the FKEY a Window pops up says: FGon: Make, Clear. When I press "Make" the Error message "Didn't find FGon to create" comes up. What happens? Thanks for your help.

Update: this happens if you haven't deselected the four vertices that you have just used for extruding (so you actually have eigth vertices selected, four in the elbow and four in the "hand"). Perhaps a warning note could be added in the tutorial.

Successfully completed this tutorial on 2006-09-20
I completed this tutorial on 2006-09-20 using Blender 2.42a. I only found one confusing thing that should be added/clarified. About half way down the page you are instructed to change the Rotation/Scaling Pivot to 3D Cursor. However, you are never instructed to change the Rotation/Scaling Pivot back to Median Point. Everything seems fine until you try to do the scaling on the head. If your pivot is still down at the hips then scaling the head won't work right. Upon changing the pivot cursor back to Median Point the head will scale as described in the tutorial. An instruction about this should be added at the appropriate place. Also, the red text before the "Modeling the arms" section which says "Screenshots and more specific instructions needed for this section." should possibly be removed (I think its old). After working through that section I didn't have any problem understanding the directions and the screenshots were helpful and adequate. (BTW, I am a beginner to Blender.)

Picture problem still there.
Um, perhaps somebody decided to fix the problem of the pictures encroaching on the text right this moment, and deleted the discussion pertaining to that, or maybe not. Whatever the reason, ten seconds ago there was a discussion on the pictures covering the text and now it is gone, strangely, right after I replied to it. Anyway, it's still a problem.


 * Oh, wait, I just messed it up, nevermind. Here it is. --207.6.170.68 01:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

some text ist covered by a picture, i can't read it. but i realized that everything looks perfectly right, if i choose a bigger fontsize. if you could try the same i would be thankful. i think this is a central problem of wikimedia projects: the pictures are somewhere else, belonging to your fontsize. any ideas to fix it? i hope i could help you...

Shade


 * Nothing new to add. The noob to pro tutorial is brilliant, it's just this page that is a bit of a stress. Dessydes 13:59, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I've just moved the image to the right, so that anyone who wants to read the text is now free to do so. Revert if you want, I'm not trying to be a vandal. Hopefully the author will fix this page, as all the previous tutorials were so clear and concise. Dessydes 14:09, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * It's still buggered. --207.6.170.68 00:53, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Small issue with scaling
The tutorial says "Note, you cannot scale along the Z-axis, as the current selection's Z-dimension is zero." Shouldn't it also point out that you can't scale on Y either, since the two selected edges are parallel on the z-plane?

Coordinate System
Is Y the depth in blender? Top view shows the Y axis going back in space? The coordinate system should be mentioned somewhere in the tutorial.

On the version of Blender that I have, 2.49a, a new scene is presented seen from the top, with y being up on the screen, x to the left and z toward the viewer. However, when we get to this part, the z is up, x is to the right and y points away from the viewer. This should be pointed out somewhere in the instructions to avoid confusion. - Bonapon

My own small issue with the tutorial
So I just picked up this tutorial today, and when I reached the part about Modeling the arms, I wasn't able to figure out what this part meant. "Before you begin, also uncheck the roundish button to make the arms into cubes again. You can change them back after you are done." Where specifically is this Roundish button, and is it even still in v2.44?

Thanks for the help in advance

The button to the left of "^" "v" "x" buttons: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Image:Blender_panel_modifiers.png

There many problems starting at "Scaling section"
I am having a lot of trouble pulling out of this page what I need to do make my model look like the example. It's way to embedded in the discussion. It's like this part is rushed.

I would like to see a more recipe oriented step-wise approach. Either followed or proceeded by a general discussion of each of the steps. The way it is now leaves a lot to be desired. For instance at the start of each section it should be stated something to the effect "In this section will do some task using the this technique". From there either describe the general technique or techniques then give step by step instructions to accomplish said task or vice versa. We are noobs we need everything explained, or least I do.

--Gilgamesh007 19:39, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I cannot follow this section. It's not clear which three faces are being selected from either picture or text, but more importanntly when I precisely follow the directions the scaling does not produce the pictured result. The three boxes simply push everything else aside instead of graduating into them.

I can't find the manipulator hand icon. Is it important?
Under scaling with axis constraints.

I can't find this either. It also shows a five-fingered hand in the tutorial. No such icon appears when simply following the instructions in this tutorial. There is that one-finger icon though.

Confusing newbie note
What does the Newbie Note mean? On the part where the arm is to be extruded upward, it says "Newbie note: this looks more natural if you extrude 1 square using Rotate Manipulator Mode, and 2 squares using Scale Manipulator Mode."

What exactly is its effect? Natural in what way? There is no explanation... only that it "looks more natural". I tried this and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Does manipulator mode affect extrusion at all?

I think that newbie note only serves to further confuse readers.

(Edit: very sorry about my comment on the article page itself. I have move my comment here. I was going to remove my comment from the main page and suddenly couldn't find it... Editor removal was almost instantaneous!)

--ryan

I removed that note. 84.49.71.107 (talk)

Drawing the armpits
We'll now use the 3D cursor instead of the selection's center: bring up the Mesh → Snap menu (SHIFT-SKEY) and select Cursor → Selection (KEY4). This will move the 3D cursor to the location of the manipulator.

Mentioning "KEY4" as a shortcut seems like it would globally refer to "cursor->selection" while actually it refers to "select 4th item in the active menu" if a menu is active, and "show 4th layer" if viewing 3d-window. Either it should be mentioned earlier in the tutorial that numeric keys can be used to quick select menu items, or it should be given a sidenote on this page "(KEY4 selects the item when the menu is active)". Just my opinion there, but I found it confusing for the all 5 seconds it took me to try out the alternative behaviors with different menus.

comment removed from module
Please remember to keep discussion of the module on the talk page. Comment was regarding: Newbie note: this looks more natural if you extrude 1 square using Rotate Manipulator Mode, and 2 squares using Scale Manipulator Mode. Comment: (What in heaven does this mean? There is no explanation... only that it "looks more natural". I tried this and it doesn't seem to make a difference. Does manipulator mode affect extrusion at all? --ryan) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.69.179.118 (talk • contribs) 18:34, October 19, 2007.

– Mike.lifeguard  &#124; talk 21:39, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

But what in heaven does that mean? That Newbie note should be explained or removed.. It's confusing me! -- Patrick

Hi, I'm Thomas, and I got stuck in the section with elbow. So, I selected those four vertices around the gap and pressed FKEY. A face covered this gap, I guess that's good ... but the elbow is not curved like in screenshots in this tutorial. The whole arm is like a cut cylinder, not smooth curve towards the top. Maybe that's not so important, but I feel like this new face is not connected to the whole object at all ... when I try to move it, only the face and its vertices move; arm stays untouched ( I mean, when I move this face, it detaches from the arm, arm is not bending like it should ).

Here is a link to my screenshot: http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o324/tomalla5120x/Temporary/temp.jpg

Any ideas?

I can't do the first one..how do I get the white circle to where it is on the image?

Pelvis widening?
When I first viewed Noob to Pro/Detailing Your Simple Person 2, I saw a section on widening the pelvis proportionately from the center. It no longer seems to be included in this page. Am I wrong? What happened to that section?Mtjlt (talk) 12:23, 10 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I removed it during the recent revamp. I figure if we show people how to widen the torso, they can figure out for themselves how to enlarge other body parts.  --Stepheng3 (talk) 19:51, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Premade Model
I downloaded the premade model to make sure i did the previos tutorials right and noticed that the premade model wasn't right! There are 8 double vertices and the pelvis is slightly deformed. Maybe someone should make a new premade model. --174.1.138.178 (talk) 05:49, 24 November 2010 (UTC)