Talk:Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Archive 3

Beginner's Guide Issues
When I look at the PDF file of the Beginner's guid, it only goes to the beginning of "Introducing the Bezier Curve" and then there's a blank page and that's it. That's only a total of 140 pages. What happened to the rest? Has anyone else had this issue? --DotDarkCloud 26:24 GMT -3:30 September 15th 2007 -- Yes, I have the same issue with the PDF of the Noob to Pro Beginner Tutorials. It's now 12 Jan 2008--four months following the original post on this topic. Hello? --Seajasonq (talk) 20:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

STILL an issue a year later! Who can fix this?

I'm back
I've decided I'd like to return to work on Noob to Pro for awhile. I have a very specific vision for this book and I would like to get back to making it happen. There's two kinds of people I need right now: editors and content-contributors (authors). I'd like to organize the ranks and hand out some specific tasks/duties. Let me know what you're interested in doing and I'll get you started. --Spiderworm 16:00, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I would be willing to try to clean up the table of contents and clean up the naming scheme used for this book. In theory that should help improve the orginization of the book. I tend to be bias twords having the table of contents on a seperate page from the other information included so its more like a traditional book in that its seperated from the rest of the contents. That would be one of the things I would do if its acceptable. --dark [[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]] lama 21:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Great! Sounds like you're interested in editorship work!  The book sure does need some help in page-naming and TOC organization.  I'm open to your suggestions on TOC, but I have some very particular requirements for page names... I want them to be fun!  I would like key points introduced in the tutorials to be listed in the TOC as well, after the name of the page and completion icon.


 * Take a look at Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Team and put your name in there under Editors. Add the tasks you're working on and assign yourself to them.  What you propose to do could have major impacts on the entire book, so please explain to me exactly what changes you would like to make in detail.


 * --Spiderworm 17:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually when it comes to page names, I was just talking about fixing any inconsistencies in how they are named. I don't really have any major name changes in mind that I can think of. Just making sure that "All Are Like This", since just a few "Are like this instead". Having key points of each chapter listed on the table of contents sounds fine to me, I just wonder if a chapter that introduces what the other chapters are about might be better? That way the table of contents isn't too big. --dark [[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]] lama 19:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm here to help, There are some pages that need some cleaning and some pages that need some deleting (like the creating a volcano page needs either deletion or major reform). I'll get right on track and fix the disgusting animation page, and I might need to add more pages such as lattices and I might even use a whole page for IPO curves(they're better than you think). Let's get this rollin! --Danthemango April 2007


 * I can help (some). I was a noob that went through this book, learning much, but still seeing the room for improvement. For example, I skipped some of the modelling tutorials because I found that I got a lot of the noobish commands by then. Maybe it is just that I am a quick learner. By now I am not a noob (only a semi-noob). While I may not be up to the challenge of overhauling the entire modelling section, I can still help edit here and there. Lotrf3 00:11, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

The torrent link is dead
Just that. It would be nice to put back a working torrent link, and maybe an Azureus magnet link. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.157.251.37 (talk • contribs) 04:13, 29 January 2007.


 * I have removed the dead torrent link. My average bandwidth usage for hosting the PDF file is only 13 GB a month (about 130 downloads each day), so it isn't really necessary to maintain a torrent. Nivix 06:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

pdf-link dead
I've been trying to download the "Noob to Pro"-pdf yesterday and today. Without being successful. The reason maybe that nivix.net is not online for at least I can not access it.

If everybody desperately needs a PDF copy of these tutorials, we could create a PDF from the printable page in something like PDFCreator.--DTR 15:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I've made one if you want to use it: Image:Blender 3D Noob to Pro - Beginner Tutorials.pdf -- Kitsune07 13:52, 14 April 2007

Wow... someone gutted this book.
There seems to be a very big problem with people taking out detail from these pages. I was so enchanted with the manual that I found here in december 2006. Now, it's really a much easier pathway for a newbie - but a pathway which doesn't lead very far into the mountains and valleys of learning the interface. Think about how a college textbook in a college is written - it has a lot of detail packed into the pages, for a reason. Even though it's harder to read, there is more inherent value when there's more detail. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.201.201.42 (talk • contribs).


 * You're probably referring to the work I'm doing in transferring tutorials to a more visual approach with lots of screenshots and such. I pulled out a lot of stuff to yes, make it easier for beginners, and will teach the more detailed stuff in later tutorials where it's more appropriate and when it's needed.  --Spiderworm 15:43, 19 March 2007 (UTC)


 * While, I'm not sure what could be done to improve this book, I do agree that this book use to be better back when I downloaded the single page version for a friend sometime last year. However I do have some thoughts that might help. I think the first chapter should be a walkthrough of blender showing what all blender has to offer and can be used for, and to help familiarize readers with the interface. The various tutorials should probably be unified to work towards creating one thing which requires use of all that blender has to offer, but which can be broken up into chapters of related tools or features to create parts of that one thing, so that by the time readers have finished the book, a firm grasp of how to create anything that can be achieved. This approach might minimize some duplications and allow chapters to build on one another more easily and allow readers to build on whats already been covered rather then having to start over if they are trying to following the examples. --dark [[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]] lama 15:48, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Layout and Reading Flow
I'm editing the Interface section and noticing that the caption blocks sometimes make it difficult to keep track of the main point. For example, the sections on Blender Units and the Active Window, while related and important, interrupt reading flow and may impact comprehension. I think moving these and the introductory blocks off the image and making them body text would help clarify the examples as only the relevant text blocks will be directly overlaid. I think it would also make the examples more "at a glance" useful when reviewing, as I often did when I first read this book. Winterbourne 07:07, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm the one that changed those to the visual approach, and I've gotten a bit of feedback similar to yours. I think I'm going to have to go back to the body/paragraph format and use the image/text combos to highlight important parts of the interface.  Unfortunately I don't have any time now as I am preparing for Siggraph, so I will have to come back and fix this sometime later. --Spiderworm 16:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I'll start on the process, as I have some time this month. Winterbourne 03:29, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Consistency with Templates & Guidelines
Is there a template available for tutorials? (Either specifically for this book, or for all of Blender?) There appear to be many different styles in effect based on what each of the author's think, which makes reading a little tricky. Guidelines would help too, as it will force authors to follow a particular style, and avoid adding unnecessary extras --Spxza 15:07, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Source code
Is the part of source code of Blender that actually draws the images on the screen available in C? I'd be interested to download it. --212.149.219.120 12:19, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Respectful Request
If you don't understand something please use the discussion page to make comments or requests. It is impolite and a waste of another reader's time to mark up the tutorial with things like "Noob Note" and "Readers Comment." While one instance is insignificant multiply each inappropriate little note by the time it takes to read them, by the number of tutorials done, and it adds up.

Awesome book
I really think this book shows how great wikibooks is. Keep up the good work.
 * Yeah! I actually thought I would never get into blender but this book helps a lot, thx!

Deletions Running Rampant
In addendum to the above "someone gutted this book" I'd like to point out a LOT of pages have had illustration images removed without care or cause other than the fact that the picture had no copyright tags on them. I have found in a few cases where images had such tags, but were removed anyway. I can fully understand some policies involved with copyrighted imagery, but in many cases these were simple screenshots of the Blender interface where some very vital information such as settings for a tutorial or example were displayed. As I had said in another discussion, people need to adopt better fuzzy logic when it comes to removing images that have no copyright information tags on them. Otherwise what happens is that an author uploads an article, formats, edits, works very hard on it, and then just leaves and forgets about it only rarely checking in on things. Then along comes someone who decides due to "policy" that the images have to be deleted. Suddenly everything is gone and the entire article has been disrupted and its carcass is left to rot. The end-users who wish to peruse this information are all inconvenienced and left frustrated because information is missing. I highly suggest adoption of better policies when it comes to this. --Tybee 04:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

PDF Link suggestion
I think the PDF links are a bit obscure - they should be labeled differently, otherwise there's nothing visual to distinguish between those 3 identical links..


 * I added which section they contain in the label, but by doing that it cuts out the file size. People can click on info to see both section and file size, so it just depends on what is more important to more people, seeing section name without having to mouse over the link, or seeing size to gauge how long it will take to download or how big each section is compared to the others. Is there a way to show both section and size? Ikarsik 08:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


 * added the printables and PDFs to each section, with the PDFs showing size. redundant but yea. Ikarsik 08:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Deleting a Page
The Die Easy page in the begining modeling tutorials needs to be deleted. I don't know how to delete a page, could someone do it. TwistedWeasel (talk) 02:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

The "Building a House" page is out of order
The page ordering with the "next page"/"previous page" buttons at the top does not correspond to the TOC page for the book. Specifically the "Building a House" page is out of order. I would fix it myself but I'm not sure where the correct place for it is. -AndrewBuck (talk) 06:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Done TwistedWeasel (talk) 18:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Deleting the Die Easy page
I opened the die easy page for deletion. It has been rewritten for blender 2.44, and the page now contains no useful information. Please discuss this on the page Die Easy (to be deleted) TwistedWeasel (talk) 19:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Left a note
I left a question under one of the tutorials. Here is a link to the discussion page:


 * Creating Basic Water animation

--Domtron (talk) 02:13, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

What about a modeling/animation/etc troubleshooting page?
When I say troubleshooting I'm not refering to blender functionality and/or bugs. I'm refering to creating a separate link in the table of contents in which blender users could gather information on how to solve common problems while modeling, using subsufs, animating, texturing, etc. There are some known solutions that I've been trying to find in the web and I couldn't. I'll wait for other opinions.

EDIT: Well, I found one right here, but is mixed with other stuff that is unrelated to: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro/FAQ#How_do_I_fix_the_black_lines_that_appear_on_my_mesh_when_I_click_.22set_smooth.22.3F

--Skaruts 20:59, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposed rename...
I propose we change the name of this book. Please see Newbie. --Remi (talk) 02:20, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

That's actually an inaccurate description of the term. Noob is just a phonetic spelling of newb, which is a shortening of newbie. It's relation to the word boob for denoting idiocy is coincidental, but since it fits the picture, it's believable, when really it's as good as a backronym. Yes, noob and n00b have negative connotations, but to the same extent as calling someone "green". It means inexperience, and it's the inexperience that's negative, and since the purpose of this book is to allow one's self to overcome inexperience, it's not inappropriate as a title. Loki Clock (talk) 18:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Suggested titles

 * Blender 3D: Becoming a Pro

Python Scripting or BGE?
After a little more knowledge of the coding for Blender with Python, I was going to start a similar, but more extensive, version of the Platformer Game Design series replacing all logic board processes used to make the first ones with Python code, then showing how to add such things as enemies with a simple AI routine. However, I don't know if the logic board and python scripting are both considered part of the Blender Game Engine or not. One one hand, you toggle on script links and whatnot in the logic section, they interact at other points, and Python scripts, except when executed manually from Blender, perform in the same environment as the logic and physics. So you'd think they were someone of the same entity, that being the game engine as a whole. In addition, at least one python-using article already exists in the BGE section. Question is, should I add the proper articles to the Blender Game Engine section as before, add them to the Advanced Tutorials; Python Scripting section, make a subsection of the Python Scripting section for game scripting tutorials, or perhaps start a BGE section in Advanced Tutorials? If not continuing in the old BGE section, should I move the other python-containing articles while I'm at it?

Also, I'd like to point out that I added some useful information to do with generating vertices, faces, etc., with Python to the procedural object creation article. Loki Clock (talk) 18:58, 26 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Adding a python section to the book is a great idea, since good BGE python tutorials seem to be so scarce. I'm in favour of just extending the BGE tutorial section, since BGE Python is completely different from Blender scripting Python.  I've been thinking about adding an introduction to BGE Python, although if I did, it would be assume a basic knowledge of Python (as there are great tutorials out there already ).  Anyways, keep up the good work with your platformer tutorials.--Malaz (talk) 01:22, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay. I've created the first article, which, while incomplete, still contains some information that took me hours to discover and is most basic to video game production. If anyone objects, I suppose it can all be moved later on. Loki Clock (talk) 11:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Both? --Remi (talk) 23:28, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

New PDF Propasal
I am currently working on a New Pdf for the Beginner Tutorials Section. It uses the Now This wikibook is quite book so a single effort is close to impossible. I would like to propose a section for this. Users can commit to a section then Those sections will be merged together to make a single file. This way keeping the Pdf updated to the changes to the wiki will be as easy as just merging files together in OpenOffice.--Darkfire (talk) 18:48, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I would be willing to make a basic pdf from a latex source based upon the wiki. I agree, the current pdf format is awful its just been printed to file, and making it into a little latex document wouldnt be too big a task (repetative mind). If anyone supports I shall go ahead. 81.105.104.19 (talk) 00:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Troubleshooting Chapter
You know I myself have been thinking more and more about this subject, and the more I've thought about it, the more it makes sense -- there is a difference between learning how to enact a subject, and having a problem with a subject. Now, I really appreciate this book -- I've been using it for well over a year, and now I have learned enough to sign on and become one of the books authors; I've even contributed a few pages myself -- however, I've felt more and more that this book can teach you how to do something, but doesn't deal with the subject of helping users that run into problems with certain subjects. So this is what I'm proposing; an entire chapter devoted to Troubleshooting. We can have a "bucket page" that Blender-students simply make a headline and question, and Authors or even other students can easily categorize (cut and paste) into appropriate troubleshooting pages and sections within the Chapter. I would have just gone ahead and done it, but I think adding a whole new Chapter like this, this big, would have been disrespectful to other Authors and Users, so what's your opinion on it "Blender 3D: Noob To Pro"-Users?--Jeremy Buller(talk), 00:55 August 1st 2008 (UTC)