Talk:Arimaa/Other Hostages

Paragraph
The paragraph added here should either have a diagram to accompany it, or it should be changed to match the scenario in the previous diagram. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 08:15, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Diagrams and accompanying text
The layout change was to put each diagram next to the applicable text. That seems like the best way to do it, so readers can easily connect the text to the diagrams. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 21:30, 18 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Sorry for having been silent for a while. Since these diagrams are all in the same section, it doesn't help editing to split them in wikicode, and not doing so makes the page look better, in my browser/opinion at least. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 10:59, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * In my browser, it previously displayed in such a way that one would have to scroll down to match up the text with the diagrams, and my change placed each respective diagram next to the applicable text. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 13:48, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the first diagram, "Without a gold piece ensuring the friendly camel's mobility" seemed better than "If Silver had time for these maneuvers", because the a4 horse is the principal reason Silver can't accomplish those things. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 21:30, 18 April 2018 (UTC)


 * The condition seems important. Sometimes it isn't good for Silver. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 10:59, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that "If Silver had time for these maneuvers" is better than "Without a gold piece ensuring the friendly camel's mobility"?  Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 13:48, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It has a different meaning. We shouldn't say that the hostage is necessarily good for Silver without a gold horse on a4, since it depends on the rest of the board. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 14:34, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hopefully this resolves it. Saying that Gold "would have much more to lose than to gain" doesn't mean it would necessarily work out badly for Gold, just that that part of the board would currently be weak. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 20:12, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Regarding the second diagram, the difference in elephant position is significant. If the horse is supposed to be the focus, perhaps the position should be changed. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 21:30, 18 April 2018 (UTC)


 * From a strategic point of view, the horse position is perhaps more important than the elephant position. The intention was to show how hostages might play differently depending on horse position, which is potentially valuable although relatively minor information, and I don't see why it should be removed. I would still call it hostage even if the horse is pushed to b1. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 10:59, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Surely we could have a diagram with the defending elephant on c4 and the hostaged horse on b2? That would be the logical way to follow the first position, since the horse is the focus. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 13:48, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure. I just put the elephant on b4 since it seems strategically similar and it made it easier to talk about the false protection threat. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 14:34, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Phrase in lede
I don't think "use too much strength" is helpful in this context. I assume you are thinking of, for instance, using an elephant to hostage a horse. However, one could hostage a cat with a dog, which would hardly be too much strength, yet that strategy could still be costly if the dog were dislodged and the stronger defender teamed up with the cat to control the trap. I was trying to be general in the lede, not getting into the specifics of a position. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 20:40, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I was thinking that the former phrasing implied there was a problem with weak piece hostages in general. Cat-by-dog hostages are usually fine. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 21:16, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * It only said that it can be costly to hold a weak piece hostage, much like it can be costly to have one's elephant defend a weak piece. Certainly that's not always the case with either, but I was trying to be general in the lede. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 21:42, 21 May 2018 (UTC)