Talk:Arimaa/Introduction to Strategy

Order of subpages
Regarding this change, I'm thinking Elephant Blockade should probably go back where it was; not sure about Race Positions. Hostages, frames, and blockades are the big three basic strategies. Strong elephant blockades are not common, true, but it's important to realize that they must be avoided. The Rabbit Advancement section includes two elephant blockades, so it would make sense to introduce the concept earlier. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 11:09, 15 May 2018 (UTC)


 * "Hostages, frames and blockades are the three basic strategies" seems a little arbitrary to me. They're less basic than trap control and piece efficiency e.g. blockades are not the main reason the elephants should stay centralised. I remain unsure about the order but I'm wary of overemphasising hostages and blockades relative to attacking.


 * Should the rabbit blockades in Rabbit Advancement move to the Elephant Blockade page? They could be replaced by a non-total-blockade example of an annoying rabbit. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 12:45, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I meant that blockades are conceptually more basic than things like trap control. In fact, the potential for a blockade is a factor in trap control, so it would make sense to introduce blockades first. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 16:22, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Yes, I guess the Rabbit Advancement blockades could both be moved to Elephant Blockade, and a less extreme example of friendly rabbits getting in one's way could be added to Rabbit Advancement. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 22:47, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Perhaps a solution would be to rewrite Early Ideas as a sort of expanded version of, and split it as a separate chapter going just before Introduction to Strategy. That would free us to put Introduction to Strategy in a more theoretically logical order e.g. starting with trap control. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 11:43, 26 May 2018 (UTC)


 * I got that started. It's a bit tricky to keep things simple enough for that kind of presentation. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 21:52, 26 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Here's my attempt. I don't much like the first diagram (since it isn't a real goal attack) but I would like some sort of diagram there. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 15:08, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * In the Direct Goal section, there's no need to discuss rabbit advances per se. The point is that attackers are unlikely to simply tear a substantial hole through a full defending army.
 * Beyond that, I'm not sure which version you started from. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 16:44, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Partly the current version, partly . I don't understand why not include rabbit advances when talking about goal threats. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 19:54, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * The difficulty of simply tearing a hole in the goal line is the principal reason direct goal is unlikely. If we focus on that, there is no need to talk about advanced rabbits in particular. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 20:29, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

But it would be pointless trying to tear a hole without an advanced rabbit, so referring to a rabbit makes the point clearer. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 21:46, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * But if such a hole could be torn, that might happen before a rabbit advanced very far. In the current page, the section begins with: "The most direct strategy in Arimaa is to try to rip a hole in the goal line and then march a rabbit through." That seems like an adequate mention of rabbits. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 22:17, 1 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I still don't understand why it's preferable to omit advanced rabbits. Beginners often try to goal early in the game with elephant and rabbit, and I thought this section was addressing that. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 12:25, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Once one understands that you can't simply plow through a full defending army, it's obvious that an early elephant-rabbit attack wouldn't work. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 17:29, 2 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Are you objecting to the inclusion of a diagram with an advanced rabbit? That one isn't necessary doesn't mean it wouldn't make things clearer. Again, elephant–rabbit attack is something that some beginners aim for. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 17:18, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I just added a paragraph about rabbit advances. Not sure about a diagram (or if that subpage should even have diagrams).  The unlikelihood of simply tearing a hole through a full defending army is still the primary point there, and too much emphasis on rabbits themselves might distract from that. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 19:14, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Any other comments on my version? Risteall (discuss • contribs) 17:18, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Overall, I like the current version better. Some of your version is based on an old version of that page which I have since, from my standpoint, tidied up.  That page should be kept simple.  I'm not sure there should even be any diagrams there. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 19:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC)


 * More important than whatever is said about goal attack is the approach to hostages and trap control. Frames and blockades are less important than attacking, so I replaced them with an attempted description of attack/defence balance, which isn't well treated elsewhere in the wikibook. Besides that, I think diagrams can make things clearer. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 21:54, 5 June 2018 (UTC)


 * Your trap control section looks good. But perhaps it would best be integrated into Trap Control itself, rather than Early Ideas. While important, trap control might be too complicated to even introduce at the outset. While ultimately less important, frames and blockades are simpler examples of how an elephant can lose mobility. Belteshazzar (discuss • contribs) 23:16, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I think the current version overemphasises home games, so I'd like to start with attack/defence balance in order to counter that. It isn't necessary to go into detail about trap control, but a brief description seems necessary because it's one of the main aims of attacking. I don't think of elephant mobility as fundamental, though I'm not sure what other players think. Risteall (discuss • contribs) 15:34, 7 June 2018 (UTC)