Talk:Ada Programming/New Name needed

New Name needed
We are pretty successful on Book of the month - however the issue of WB:NC has arissen and it seems we need a new name for our book.

Since WB:NC prescribes that the Book name is also used for the templates and category I am in favor of a short name like Ada or prehaps Ada 2006. For the later we would need to wait until the AdaIC finaly agrees on a name (or have they already).

For the Chapters I believe the Subpage seperator "/" will suit us better then the namespace seperator ":".

--Krischik 07:04, 4 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Note also that WB:NC has been superseded by WB:NP, although it's largely the same. As you can see from this page, I've recommend the '/' delimiter, since newbies who add pages almost always fail to provide backlinks, and the 'flat' structure to make it easier to reorganise the structure later, although you may prefer to include a minimal hierarchy if you have hundreds of pages. - Aya T C 20:04, 7 August 2005 (UTC)


 * It is also needed to change the names of the categories to something like Category:Ada Programming:Ada 2005 feature (supposing the new title is "Ada Programming"). I also propose to change the name of the categories Category:Ada unfinished article and Category:Ada empty article because in Wikibooks there are no articles but "modules" (this is no the Wikipedia). --surueña 15:36, August 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * Note that we also have families of templates that start with Template:Ada 2005, Template:Ada 95 and Template:Ada 83 (and also a single template called Template:Ada2005, but this is a redirection to Template:Ada 2005) like those that point to the ARM: Template:Ada 95/RM1. Maybe we must also create the following redirections to the wikibook: Ada 2005, Ada 95 and Ada 83. How many redirections are allowed for a Wikibook? In my opinion if the naming conventions forbid us to use those template names the naming policy is too restrictive --surueña 15:47, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, maybe we can use, instead of Template:Ada 2005/RM1, "just" Template:Ada/2005/RM1 and have only one additional domain name (it's a lot of work, we need a tool! The same for Template:Adakw -> Template:Ada/kw). It's true that every wikibook cannot "polute" the namespace as desired. --surueña 17:36, August 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, we need a tool. I am annoyed because pywikipedia bots lack a rename tool. It can rename a category but not a list of pages. For the pages all it can do is to fix the redirects that are created after moving a page so the referring pages link to the new name. For templates, it can replace a template instantiation by another. I don't know whether it would be easy to make a renamer tool based on its framework or from scratch. ManuelGR 20:43, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Ada 2005

 * According to Ada05 rational they have accorded to call it Ada 2005.


 * There has been much discussion on whether the language should be called Ada 2005 or Ada 2006. For various reasons the WG9 meeting in York in June 2005 decided that the vernacular name should be Ada 2005.
 * I think "Ada" is too short, better "Ada Programming" or "Programming in Ada". "Ada 2005" would be a good marketing name and not so short, but I still prefer to see the word programming on it. But no strong opinion on that. ManuelGR 22:51, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Ada Programming

 * As for long names I prefer Ada Programming - if only for the venable (and cheaty) TIOBE Programming Community Index.
 * I think that Programming in Ada will also work for this purpose. --surueña 15:36, August 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * However the Naming conventions prescribes that the Book name, and not a short form of it, is used for Templates and Categories. Especialy for Templates this would hurt us since we use templates in code samples.


 * Remember that Naming conventions is still proposed policy. I don't like very much that point of the policy. I have given arguments against it in Wikibooks talk:Naming conventions. ManuelGR 17:10, 5 August 2005 (UTC)


 * If your suggestion gets acceptet I would support Ada Programming. - Strange that suruena has not said anything yet....


 * Hello again --I've returned for a few days, I'm on vacations--. I don't like that the title refers to the version of the language covered because it is also useful for people not using the new admendment, and all we want that in the future the Wikibook will be updated for the next revisions of Ada. Maybe the "subtitle" can include this (not a part of the page name).
 * Ada Programming sounds OK for me, but I'm not a native English speaker. Maybe if we post to comp.lang.ada we will have valuable ideas. --surueña 15:36, August 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * Why the naming policy prescribes the title "Ada Programming"? --surueña 15:36, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Votes
All options with redirection from Ada (except the first) and Programming:Ada.

Ada Programming

 * 1) --Krischik 06:12, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) --surueña 15:36, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) --obry 20:28, August 8, 2005 (MEST)
 * 4) --ManuelGR 20:43, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Programming in Ada

 * 1) --surueña 15:36, August 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * 2) --ManuelGR 20:43, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Existing name
There are more than three hundred books in amazon.com about Ada (but there are some editions of the ARM and the Rationale, and several conference proceedings). When searching for "programming in Ada", besides the well known "Programming in Ada 95" of John Barnes, there are several books named "Programming in Ada" or "Programming in ADA", but also "Programming with Ada". I suppose there are no problems, but can we choose an existing name for the wikibook? --surueña 16:17, August 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * See Avoid Copyright Paranoia. - Aya T C 18:03, 8 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Don't worry about this. Only a registered mark could forbid the usage and for that you should give a fully new word, not a common english phrase. All that could be said if we choose "Programming in Ada" is that we haven't been original. ManuelGR 20:43, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Separator
Should we vote also for the separator? Or is there agreement on using "/" after the renaming? ManuelGR 20:43, 9 August 2005 (UTC)


 * I like the "/" separator (without surrounding white spaces, as stated in WB:NP) because it's the recommended one for new wikibooks. It has the advantage of the links to the parent pages. But, can these links be removed? --surueña 09:51, August 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * I too like the "/" separator - It is also the standart seperator for URL (http://host/path/doc, ftp://path/file.ext, etc. pp) - it gives the pages name more a normal html fell.

Conversion to the new naming policy
Steps for converting the wikibook to the new Naming policy:


 * 1) Choose a new title [[Image:yes.png|20px]] Result: Ada Programming
 * 2) Reserve the new title [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 3) Register the wikibook's aliases (at Alias Registry? Card Catalog Office?) [[Image:non.png|20px]]
 * 4) * Programming:Ada (old cover) &mdash; Not actually an alias, but a "catalog" of wikibooks about the Ada language (currently a redirection to the only one).
 * 5) * Ada (template short-cut)
 * 6) Choose the separator [[Image:yes.png|20px]] Result: "/"
 * 7) List all available templates in Template:Ada [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 8) Rename all templates to the Ada book alias domain: [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 9) * Template:Adakw -> Template:Ada/kw
 * 10) * Template:Ada2005 -> Template:Ada/2005
 * 11) * Template:Ada 2005 -> Template:Ada/2005
 * 12) * Template:Ada 2005/RM1 -> Template:Ada/2005/RM1
 * 13) * Template:Ada 2005/RM2 -> Template:Ada/2005/RM2
 * 14) * Template:Ada 2005/RM3 -> Template:Ada/2005/RM3
 * 15) * Template:Ada 2005/RMA -> Template:Ada/2005/RMA1
 * 16) * Template:Ada 2005/RMA1 -> Template:Ada/2005/RMA1
 * 17) * Template:Ada 2005/RMA2 -> Template:Ada/2005/RMA2
 * 18) * Template:Ada 2005/RMA3 -> Template:Ada/2005/RMA3
 * 19) * Template:Ada 95/RM1 -> Template:Ada/95/RM1
 * 20) * Template:Ada 95/RM2 -> Template:Ada/95/RM2
 * 21) * Template:Ada 95/RM3 -> Template:Ada/95/RM3
 * 22) * Template:Ada 95/RMA -> Template:Ada/95/RMA1
 * 23) * Template:Ada 95/RMA1 -> Template:Ada/95/RMA1
 * 24) * Template:Ada 95/RMA2 -> Template:Ada/95/RMA2
 * 25) * Template:Ada 95/RMA3 -> Template:Ada/95/RMA3
 * 26) * Template:Ada 83/RM1 -> Template:Ada/83/RM1
 * 27) * Template:Ada 83/RM2 -> Template:Ada/83/RM2
 * 28) * Template:Ada 83/RM3 -> Template:Ada/83/RM3
 * 29) * Template:Ada 83/RMA -> Template:Ada/83/RMA1
 * 30) * Template:Ada 95/SG1 -> Template:Ada/95/SG1
 * 31) * Template:Ada 95/SG2 -> Template:Ada/95/SG2
 * 32) * Template:Ada 95/SG3 -> Template:Ada/95/SG3
 * 33) * Template:Ada 83/SG1 -> Template:Ada/83/SG1
 * 34) * Template:Ada 83/SG2 -> Template:Ada/83/SG2
 * 35) * Template:Ada 83/SG3 -> Template:Ada/83/SG3
 * 36) * Template:Ada 95/R1 -> Template:Ada/95/R1
 * 37) * Template:Ada 95/R2 -> Template:Ada/95/R2
 * 38) * Template:Ada 95/R3 -> Template:Ada/95/R3
 * 39) * Template:Ada 83/R2 -> Template:Ada/83/R2
 * 40) * Template:Ada Keywords -> Template:Ada/Keywords
 * 41) * Template:Ada Navigation 1 -> Template:Ada/Navigation 1
 * 42) * Template:Ada Navigation 2 -> Template:Ada/Navigation 2
 * 43) * Template:Ada Navigation 3 -> Template:Ada/Navigation 3
 * 44) Update Programming:Ada:Contributing and Template:Ada with the new template names [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 45) Choose the new categories:  [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 46) * Category:Ada programming language -> Category:Ada Programming
 * 47) * Category:Ada unfinished article -> Category:Ada Programming/Unfinished module
 * 48) * Category:Ada empty article -> Category:Ada Programming/Empty module
 * 49) * Category:Ada 2005 feature -> Category:Ada Programming/Ada 2005 feature
 * 50) List all available images and rename them:
 * 51) * Image:Ada 1838.jpg -> Remove it, using the version available at the Commons:Image:Ada Lovelace 1838.jpg [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 52) * Image:Ada types.png -> [[Image:Ada Programming/Type hierarchy.png]] [[Image:non.png|20px]]
 * 53) Convert every page of the wikibook: [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 54) * Move to the new location (Ada Programming/Page Name Link) [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 55) * Change all the wikis following the new naming convention [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 56) * Change the templates [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 57) * Change the categories [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 58) Modify the wikis inside templates following the new naming convention [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 59) Ask an administrator to move some pages: [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 60) * Template:Adakw -> Template:Ada/kw
 * 61) Remove some pages (clean namespace ):
 * 62) * Template redirections (otherwise, people will continue using the old templates, which are outside the domain name), listed in step 6. [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 63) * Old categories, except the Category:Ada programming language because can be used to track every wikibook that has a reference to Ada (maybe the proper name should be Category:Programming:Ada) [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 64) * Programming:Ada:Packages:System:System.Address_Image [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 65) * Programming:Ada:Packages:System.System.Address_Image [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 66) * Template:Ada Navigation [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 67) * Template:Ada 2006 [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 68) * Template:Ada/83/RMA [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 69) * Template:Ada/RMA [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 70) * Template:AdaIC [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 71) * Image:Ada 1838.jpg [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 72) * Image:Ada types.png [[Image:non.png|20px]]
 * 73) Update the new title on the various Bookshelves: [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 74) * Dewey [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 75) * Programming languages bookshelf [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 76) * Template:Computer Science bookshelf [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 77) * Ada programming language [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 1) * Template:Adakw -> Template:Ada/kw
 * 2) Remove some pages (clean namespace ):
 * 3) * Template redirections (otherwise, people will continue using the old templates, which are outside the domain name), listed in step 6. [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 4) * Old categories, except the Category:Ada programming language because can be used to track every wikibook that has a reference to Ada (maybe the proper name should be Category:Programming:Ada) [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 5) * Programming:Ada:Packages:System:System.Address_Image [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 6) * Programming:Ada:Packages:System.System.Address_Image [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 7) * Template:Ada Navigation [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 8) * Template:Ada 2006 [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 9) * Template:Ada/83/RMA [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 10) * Template:Ada/RMA [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 11) * Template:AdaIC [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 12) * Image:Ada 1838.jpg [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 13) * Image:Ada types.png [[Image:non.png|20px]]
 * 14) Update the new title on the various Bookshelves: [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 15) * Dewey [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 16) * Programming languages bookshelf [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 17) * Template:Computer Science bookshelf [[Image:yes.png|20px]]
 * 18) * Ada programming language [[Image:yes.png|20px]]

I think that these are the major steps that must be done. Please, feel free to add any step or to change anything. When we've reached an agreement the migration can start. When does the poll for choosing the new title end? Maybe next monday, August 15? --surueña 14:08, August 10, 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree with all the points except for category names. We should use the same separator used for other pages: Category:Ada Programming/Empty module. About deletions, I am in favour of removing old categories and templates, and leaving the module redirections given that it may exist external pages pointing to current modules (e. g. Spanish interwiki links, although these ones will be corrected sooner or later). --ManuelGR 19:22, 10 August 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, I've just changed the colon separator of the categories with a slash. Note that the proposal for the new categories change slightly the name because in Wikibooks there are modules, not articles.
 * Also, I've also added the possibility or adapting to the domain name the image of Ada Lovelace, but maybe we can just delete this image and use the same image form the Commons Image:Ada Lovelace 1838.jpg. --surueña 21:05, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

I think that the migration plan is nearly finished, if you found any problem or a missing step please, make any needed change. I'll try to convert every template to the new naming convention this weekend, because the new title poll ends the next monday and I will be at travel since the next tuesday. I will try to work in the migration as much as possible, it would be fine that we have finished it before September because it could be the next book of the month. We can achieve both. --surueña 08:22, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Categories and templates
I have used the old navigational templates parameters (Template:Ada/Navigation 1, etc.) for adding all the pages to the new category Category:Ada Programming. This has the benefit that during the transition all the pages are attached to both categories until we delete or modify the old category from all pages, i.e no two different sets of pages in two categories. The inconvenience is that the category added through a template is not immediately visible in the category page. I don't know whether the category is refreshed when each page is edited or when a category cache is outdated. What do you think about this? Should we use categories in templates? If the answer is no, we can delete the categories from the templates when all the pages have been updated. ManuelGR 17:22, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


 * It's a good idea to mark the category in the navigation templates during the transition, but I think that later it's preferable to use categories in templates only in special cases, like to tag Ada 2005 features. Aside the problems with the cache, some pages should not be put into Category:Ada Programming, like the category page itself or Category:Ada programming language. Of course in that pages a text substitution can be used instead a template usage, but anyway I prefer not to use this category inside the template. --surueña 09:29, August 25, 2005 (UTC)

Migration (nearly) finished
There are some minor points to do, but currently the migration to the new naming policy can be considered finished:


 * The aliases must be registered
 * The image with the type hierarchy must be moved (Manuel, as the uploader, maybe you want to do that), and then request the removal of the old image.

And probably there are links in some pages that haven't been modified. Also, note the new usage of the Category:Ada programming language. I think that this is sound, and no Wikibook can be title that way because it is lower case, however the Category:C programming language and Category:C plus plus programming language have a different use. What do you think about this? --surueña 14:20, August 26, 2005 (UTC)


 * I see that Category:Ada programming language is fixed as well now - I guess we can archive this discussion now . --Krischik 07:12, 11 September 2005 (UTC)