Cookbook talk:Salsa (Fermented)

Not enough salt!
(comment move from recipe to discussion page) There is not enough salt in this recipe to insure that it will safely ferment. For lactofermented vegetables such as cabbage the rule of thumb is one teaspoon per pound, for vegetables that are not in the cruciform family the salt is doubled. There is a good chance with tomatos that you end up with a fermented product that will make you sick.

I would recommend using at least 5 times the amount of salt called for in this recipe. --Jim, 2007-07-08T03:34:43


 * Not in my experience. One to two teaspoons for the quantities given produces a good product with fresh ingredients. The combination of the low levels of acid in the tomatoes, the sulphur present in the onions and garlic, and the inulin contribution from the onions and garlic, plus a little salt, provide the LAB a good environment for a strong fermentation. The low level of salt is possible because of the acid in the tomatoes, which does the same job as salt in inhibiting undesirable microorganism growth during the initial phases of fermentation while the various LAB get established.
 * You may want to check out the book "Keeping Food Fresh", ISBN 1-890132-10-1, which has a couple of lactofermented tomato recipes. In both recipes, the salt is added after the fermentation, and is only used to ensure the resulting product (tomato sauce and tomato balls) can be kept safely outside of a refrigerator. Crushed tomatoes ferment well without any addition of salt, or anything else.
 * I've noted this discussion in the "Notes, tips and variations" section, and changed the recipe's salt addition from 1 to "1-2" teaspoons. Webaware talk 00:56, 8 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I will give the recipe a try. I was looking for was a recipe for pickled green tomatoes when I came across this page. Jim


 * I just had a wander through a few books, and the only green tomato "pickle" recipes I found were cooked chutneys with vinegar as the acid, and a green tomato jam (Indian). If you find a good green tomato pickle recipe, please come back and add your version of it here! Oh, and we're making fermented salsa again today, because we ran out and my wife demands it as a salsa and as a cooking ingredient... Webaware talk 00:53, 11 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I made some green tomato relish on friday, 4.5 pounds of green tomatoes, 1/2 a large onion, 1 clove of garlic, some red pepper flakes. a pinch of clove powder and 9 teaspoons of salt.
 * It tasted really good before it fermented. On Monday I added some juice from some kim chi to move the fermentation along. After fermenting it still tastes pretty good, somewhat like ketchup, I think it needs some more spices, fresh ginger and mustard seed maybe.


 * I haven't tried the ripe red tomato ferment yet. I have some gazpacho that I put some more salt in and some kim chi juice and will see how that works. Jim


 * G'day Jim, the green tomato sounds good, but I agree it would be better with more spice, more onion, perhaps more garlic; ginger and mustard seed sound good too. Let us know how you get on with version 2 :-)
 * Fermented gazpacho sounds interesting - do report back on that one, too! Oh, and if you haven't already, you might be interested to drop in on these lists:, . Webaware talk 08:41, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * One teaspoon of which salt? Morton's and Diamond, the two major kosher salt brands in the U.S., differ so greatly in crystal shape that a cup of one weighs nearly twice as much as the other; i.e., there's twice as much salt substance for the same volume. That's not to mention all the various brands of sea salt, other kosher salt brands, and rock salt, which are each going to give you different amounts of salt in your teaspoon. There's also measuring error. Two people scooping out of the same container with the same measuring cup can produce results that vary by as much as 25%. If you're going to make a fuss about the amount of salt in a recipe, you have to at a bare minimum tell us what brand of salt you're talking about, and really you should talk about salt weight in grams. 75.69.229.78 (talk) 18:09, 6 October 2009 (UTC) Josh Caswell

4% salt by weight is all that is required for fermentation. Sandor Katz even talked about salt free fermentation but there will be some failures in that case. Therefore 1 teaspoon of salt for a quart of ingredients should suffice. I've safely and deliciously fermented pickles, kimchi, sauerkraut, hummus and started my first fermented salsa today.

Fermentation in the tropics
Can an optimum temperature for the fermentation process be included in the article? I assume that the article was written for fermentation in temperate climates, but in temperatures of 25-32 degrees celsius the salsa may spoil rather than ferment! Perhaps an alternative can be found - fermentation in the refrigerator but for a longer period of time? --Angela


 * G'day, you have a good point - however, it is a matter of timing. I'm in Australia, and I make this salsa in temps ranging from around 10-15°C to around 30°C. The warmer it is, the faster it finishes fermenting. This can lead to spoilage, but it is basically a case of putting the salsa into the fridge once the ferment has peaked – that being once the bubbling starts to subside. The main issue is keeping everything submerged; as long as you do this, it will be OK, although a warmer ferment will favour the yeasts more and could lead to some off flavours, although they would be hard to detect with such a flavoursome ferment!
 * If you are concerned with maintaining an optimum temperature, take a look at these tips on the fermentation page. I will make an amendment to the recipe, spelling out the "ideal" temperature range, however, so thanks for initiating the discussion. cheers, Webaware talk 12:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! The fermentation page was helpful. I will try fermenting it in a bucket of water and keep a close watch on when the bubbling starts to subside. What do you mean when you say that "The main issue is keeping everything submerged"? Do you mean to keep the ingredients submerged in its liquid? --Angela


 * Yup, the ingredients. Mould happens when things are sticking up above the surface of the liquid, as moulds want oxygen. I'm not too fussy with this ferment, because it's all over and done with in a couple of days; I often just stick a jar filled with water on top of the salsa, to keep it mostly submerged. Without that, I stir about twice a day, to keep the surface mixed into the acidifying mix below.
 * The bucket of water sounds like the trick for your temperature control issue. Change the water daily, to keep it cool. Webaware talk 22:43, 19 March 2008 (UTC)